I have read through some of post on what oil to use. I have seen using oil for diesel engines before among other things.

I was just wondering what oil should I look for. I would love to run synthetic oil but I cant run that till after 500 - 900 miles break in before I can switch.

If anyone has any recomendations on what convential oil and synthetic oil to run I would appreicate it. Also I am thinking about Pennzoil or Valvoline brand.

Thanks in Advance.

 

I run regular cheap store-brand 10W-30 motor oil with no problems. I'm sure Pennzoil or Valvoline is just as good if not better!

 

Pennzoil is not on most peoples recommended list,as it is paraffin based and really leaves a sludge in the engine.Of course you know you're opening a can of worms with this question.Let the arguing,I mean,fun begin.Really,pick a good oil,change it and the filter frequently,and you'll be fine.O.K.,everyone,tell me how I'm wrong!Steve.

 

I like mystic and would use 5-30 i used mystic in my old deisel 15-40 it worked and lasted good.

 

Thats what I thought. In my auto tech training in college we were told oil is oil that an engine doesnt know the difference between one brand and another. But I just want to be safe considering most modern engines are hydrualic lifters not flat tappet mechanical lifters. I have always been running pennzoil and never had sludge build up in any of my engines but I am running Valvoline gear oil in my rear axle but either way to me Synthetic version of either would be better than convential oil. Just dont want to spend alot of money on a oem spec rebuild only to have to pull the engine and overhaul it again in 30,000 miles.

Just was wondering if theres any specific version of oil I should get. I know they have oil that is specially designed for diesel engines and some for high miliage engines and otheres for specific computer controlled vehicles.

I forgot to add Royal Purple synthetic oil to the mix. I like their products as well.

 

Do a search on the 48-60 forum, this was discussed in detail. Newer oil does not have zinc and a few other additives for engine break in because newer engines require much less break in. There have been some guys lock up their engines because of this. The oil for diesel engines still has the additives that are important for breaking in older rebuilt engines. This is extremely important in a newly rebuilt engine, after break in, other oils can be used.

 

Here is some information "part 1"




Oil is Killing our Cars

By
Keith Ansell, President
Foreign Parts Positively, Inc.
www.ForeignPartsPos itively.com
360-882-3596


Oil is Killing our cars Part I



About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese and/or phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.

A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of problem. My customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft properly and followed correct break in procedures.



This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers. Then the bad news came out: It’s today’s “modern” API (American Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines.



Next call: To another major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters won’t fail in an unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet engines.



Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the race cars (Redline). Their response: “We are well aware of the problem and we still use the correct amounts of those additives in our products”. They continued to tell me they are not producing API approved oils so they don’t have to test and comply. Their oils were NOT the “new, improved and approved” ones that destroy flat tappet engines! “We just build the best lubricants possible”. Sounds stupid, doesn’t it, New-Approved but inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars.



To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to “warn us” of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! “The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followers”. They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a proper oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the liberal use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that the first oil is the time the additives are needed but remain skeptical that the first change is all that is necessary. Their statement: Use diesel rated oils such as Delo or Rotella that are usually available at auto stores and gas stations.

This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.



Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was “VERY” aware of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldn’t rotate and are having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that verify all the “bad news” we have been finding.



Comp Cams put out “#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshafts”. They have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was “While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from the off the–shelf oil”.



Next question: Now what do we do?



From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam): “Use oils rated for diesel use”, Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and have the zinc dithiophosphate we need in weights we are familiar with. From the camshaft manufacturer (Crane): “use our additive” for at least the first 500 miles.



From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it’s only about $12.00 for each oil change for an 8 ounce can (This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!).



From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need!



From our major oil distributor: Distributing Castro, Redline, Valvoline and Industrial oils: “After over a week of contacts we have verified that the major oil companies are aware of the problem”. “The representatives of the oil companies today are only aware of marketing programs and have no knowledge of formulation”. The only major oil companies they were aware of for doing anything to address this are Valvoline that is offering an “Off Road 20W-50” and Redline.



From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils.



Last question: So what are we at Foreign Parts Positively going to do? After much research we are switching to Redline Street rated oils and stocking the Castrol products that are diesel rated. Castrol, owned by British Petroleum, is now just a brand name. This is a difficult decision as we have been a dealer and great believer in all Castrol Products for over 40 years. We have been using Castrol Syntech oil in new engines for about 3 years so the cost difference in changing to Redline is minimal. The actual cost in operation is also less as the additive package in Redline makes a 1-year or up to 18,000 mile change recommended! Yes, it is a long change interval but with lowered sulfur levels and the elimination of lead and many other chemicals in the fuels there are less contaminants in our oil from the fuel, which is the major contributor to oil degradation. We will continue to offer the Castrol products but will now only stock the suggested diesel oils that they produce.



Too many things are starting to show up on this subject and it has cost us money and time. Be aware that “New and Improved”, or even products we have been using for many years, are destroying our cars as it isn’t the same stuff we were getting even a year ago.



For the cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes this may even pose a problem as these additives that have been removed could be very critical in gear wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware of that fit the criteria are from General Motors and Redline.



If you have any additional input let us know. We need to let every flat tappet engine owner, i.e.: every British Car owner know that things are changing and we MUST meet the challenge.

 

The rest and a couple links:

Oil is Killing our cars Part II



Last month’s report on this subject is turning out to be just the tip of the iceberg! Many publications have had this subject of zinc-dialkyl- dithiophosphate (ZDDP) covered in varying depths over the last few months. Some publications have even had conflicting stories when you compare one month’s article with their next month’s article! They are all ending up supporting our report.



I have had the good fortune to have the ear of quite a few leaders in the industry including some wonderful input from Castrol. We have been very reluctant to “dump” Castrol, as it has been such a great supporter of our cars and industry over the years. Castrol hasn’t really abandoned our cars, just shifted to a more mass marketing mode. Many Castrol products are not appropriate for our cars today, some still are.



Now for the latest report:



#1 Castrol GTX 20W-50 is still good for our cars after break-in! 10W-40, 10W-30 and other grades are NOT good. Absolute NOT GOOD for any oil (Any Brand) that is marked “Energy Conserving” in the API “Donut” on the bottle, these oils are so low with ZDDP or other additives that they will destroy our cams. Virtually all “Diesel” rated oils are acceptable.



#2 Castrol HD 30 is a very good oil for break-in of new motors. This oil has one of the largest concentrations of ZDDP and Moly to conserve our cams and tappets.



#3 Only an unusual Castrol Syntec 20W-50 approaches the levels of protection we need when we look to the better synthetic lubricants. We are attempting to get this oil but will be using Redline 10W-40 or 10W-30 as these are lighter weights for better performance, flow volume, less drag and has the additive package we need.



#4 The trend today is to lighter weight oils to decrease drag, which increases mileage. Most of these seem to be the “Energy Conservation” oils that we cannot use.



#5 Redline oil and others are suggesting a 3,000-mile break-in for new engines! Proper seating of rings, with today’s lubricants is taking that long to properly seal. Shifting to synthetics before that time will just burn a lot of oil and not run as well as hoped.



#6 The “Energy Conservation“ trend was first lead by automakers to increase mileage numbers and secondly because the ZDDP and other chemicals degrade the catalytic converter after extended miles, increasing pollution. We don’t have catalytic converters and the mileage gains are not that significant for most of us.



For you science buffs: ZDDP is a single polar molecule that is attracted to Iron based metals. The one polar end tends to “Stand” the molecule up on the metal surface that it is bonded to by heat and friction. This forms a sacrificial layer to protect the base metal of the cam and tappet from contacting each other. Only at very high pressures on a flat tappet cam is this necessary because the oil is squeezed/wiped from the surface. This high pressure is also present on the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) in diesel engines, therefore the need for ZDDP in diesel engines.

Second part of the equation is Molybdenum disulfide (Moly). The moly bonds to the zinc adding an additional, very slippery, sacrificial layer to the metal. I found out that too much of the moly will create problems; lack of this material reduces the effectiveness of the ZDDP. The percentage, by weight is from .01 to .02%, not much, but necessary.



Latest conclusions: Running our older, broken in engines on Castrol 20W-50 GTX is ok. Break in a new engine for 3,000 miles on HD 30 Castrol.

New engines (after break-in) and fairly low mileage engines will do best with the Redline 10W- 40 or 10W-30 synthetic.

-
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ght=oil+diesel

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ght=oil+diesel

 

I wouldnt have a problem running Castrol GTX 20W-50 for break in and Castrol Synthetic 20W-50 after 3,000 mile break in but what about Royal Purple. Do they offer a convetnal oil for break in and a synthetic that would have the right amount of ZDDP and Moly? I would email them but the tech department link they have for the email when I click on it, it says something like it wants to open microsoft word processor but it is not the standard email platform or something like that.

I might use Redline but I have never used it nor talked with anyone that used it to really know. I am using Castrol Type F in my FMX transmission in my daily driver and its good so Castrol would be fine but 20W-50 just sounds too thick of an oil but then again wouldnt be driving the car daily so gas miliage isnt a issue with me and I doubt 1/2 mpg to 3/4 mpg increase is anything to really worry about.

 

is your standard email hotmail????? if it is, when you click on that and that lil box pops up and asks you to sign in, what its doinsg is trying to signyou into hotmail or outlook. just a guess anyways.

 

Below is a link provided by a contibutor on the y-blocksforever site. It gives some of the best information I have seen regarding oils and their protection packages, with hard fact, lab determined numbers. Also pretty much proves STP to be useless as a beneficial additive for ZDDP.
http://www.tbirdsbygil.com/index.html

 

It is under Gil's Garage.

http://www.ctci.org/membership/Gilsgarage/EngineOil.htm

 

Come on guys....

This is absolutely an urban legand! YES Pensylvania oils used to be considered "paraffin" based. but that is OLD info! It is just not true now.

It doesn't matter now. NO MODERN OIL LEAVES A "SLUDGE" period. Those old oils left a sludge because people, #1, didn't have filters and #2, didn't change the oil!


Now....the ZDDP thing....that IS a concern plain and simple.

I will still use Shell Rotella 15w40 but pretty soon they are going to remove most of the ZDDP additives. I suppose we have to hope that the replacement additives will still lubricate our flat tappets....they ARE replacing the ZDDP with additives that are supposed to do the same thing. but it's not a real concern for them since most new engines have roller lifters.

We may be stuck with using "snake oil" additives that CLAIM to do the job....



I hate this!!



Cheers,

Rick

 

Sludge can still form in engines today even with modern non synthetic oils. Its a major problem in vehicles that the engine runs too cool. For example a engine that left the factory with a 195* thermostat gets a 160* thermostat and the engine doesnt get up to the hot temp over time sludge build up occurs. That is one major reasion for these engines are running hotter and hotter thermostats. The oil sludge is reduced considerably but it also makes the engine run more efficent and pump out less emissions. But as far as synthetic goes I havent heard much about them I am used to non synthetic. But I do know that I have seen a 1982 F150 i rebuilt the engine in and its been rebuilt before and it had used this so called new anti sludge oil but someone desided to put a heavy duty radiator in it where the coolant temps are on the low side of normal. That and a 160* thermostat inplace of the 195* and that engine had so much sludge in it that the the oil couldnt drain back fast enough it was pooling in the heads.

 

I'd like to start off by saying that I'm certainly no chemist. What I AM is a professional auto technician, and have been for the last 26 years. I can tell you that ANY oil will sludge, if you leave it in there long enough. That being said, I can also tell you, from personal experience, that I've had literally dozens of engines apart for overhaul, and the only reason they failed was from using PENNZOIL OR QUAKER STATE MOTOR OIL. The coking and sludge buildup in these (relatively) low mileage engines is just unbelievable. I've seen it time and time again over the years. Don't take my word for it; If you ask 10 different mechanics what brand of oil they use, you might get 10 different answers. But if you ask the same 10 (or 1000) what brand NOT to use, You'll only get 2. -Mark