i know...i know...this topic has been beat to death in the forum here, but i was wanting to ask a specific question that i havent seen an answer to yet. I own a 78 f250 with the HD44 front axle and my question is will the 99-04 superduty springs fit on the axle perches on these axles? I was also hoping that 79f350 will join in because i have read that he is extremly informative on this subject and i am unable to email or pm him due to me being new i guess.

 

Both the D44, and the D60 have the same 3" spring perch, so the 3" spring will work just fine. The perches only pertain to the width of the spring, so the use of a SD spring will work with a 44 and 60 alike. Matter of fact, my latest truck had a D44 before I upgraded to a 60 about a month ago. Same SD springs, I only now converted to a chevy style u-bolt flip so the spring plates and nuts are on top of the spring for greater ground clearance. Cleans up the axle real nice, and keeps the plates and knuckles from dragging the rocks.

 

i have decided on 8" SD lift springs for the front and the 6 inch springs for the rear so i guess that my next problem is determining the shackle length that i need because i remember reading that the only other problem is that the shackle needed to be lengthened and that your running 5.25" center to center on your truck. Is this with a 6" spring? Will this size shackle work for me? Also i am trying to tackle the issue of steering setup. I would love to do a crossover conversion but thats out of my price range for now. I do want to be able to drive my truck on the street so it has to handle and be safe enough for me and my family. So i guess the question is what is the best way to correct the steering setup with out having to shell out 1000+ bucks for a crossover setup? Oh and i want to run 40" Ground Hawgs if that helps with anything.

 

Well, here is a bunch of good news. Since you have a 77.5 to 79 truck, you already have a longer front hanger and the shackle is already pretty long. Matter of fact, your 8" spring should fit right in there with even less work than if you had a highboy. HB hangers are shorter and so is the shackle, so slightly different mods have to be done.
You are also considering a fairly short tire. Hawgs run a little shorter than they are advertised, so you should have minimal clearance issues.
Steering,,,,,,, well this is an issue, and I do not like the facory push / pull system under any circumstances, and always suggest to get rid of it at any cost. SInce we bring up cost, being on a budget can be a bit of a burdon.
Heres how I think I would go:
Might consider making a new tie rod that utilizes a left hand and right hand thread tie rod end(s) and create an inverted "T" style steering. While this is a little tough with front leaf springs, it can be done as long as the TRE's stay below the knuckle. Although it is not highly recommended, a slight bend at the low end of the drag link might be in order to clear the spring. This will allow you to attach the drag link to the tie rod as close to the pass side knuckle as possible. Reducing this angle is important.
Watch clearance during a full lock right hand turn. You do not want the drag link to strike the spring.
This can be made for a very low cost, and will be far superior to the push / pull steering. As long as you are running a D44, this also means that you do not have to modify the knuckle to accept a new steering arm. While a true x-over is the best, it can be a little expensive for D44 owners.
I have seen a few factory F150 and bronco tie rods used and a simple custom drag link made to utilize as close to a factory inverted "t" system, but you have to watch the drag link angle, and the potential contact with the pass side spring.
Here is an idea; next time you are in a parking lot and see a 99-04 super duty, take a look at the factory steering set-up, and you will get the idea. This is an inverted "t" design, and is very easy to duplicate. These trucks can be lifted pretty high and still utilize this type of steering. You will also notice the slight bend in the drag link that addresses the clearance problem that I discussed earlier.
Anyway, hope this helps a little. Maybe by looking at a super duty truck, you can get a visual instead of reading my mumbo jumbo, lol.

 

ok. I see what your saying. i like the idea of the inverted "t" design, but this is the first time that i have ever dealt with the push/pull system that is associated with these trucks. The general consensus around here is that it sucks, but nobody has given specifics as to why...is it just an inferior design that cant be beefed up or is it just more hasle than its worth and people take the easier and obviously better route and change out the steering setup all together.
By runing an inverted "T" design will i be able to utilize my stock Gear Box or will i have to switch it out for a new model?
I have also heard of people switching out there factory power assist stetup, which is found on the older trucks for the inverted "T" system. Do you know of a kit that is sold that i could utilize to get all the parts i need. The reason i ask is that although i have good welding skills and access to the right materials i would not feel confident in my creation to the point that i would allow others to ride with me. If it was just me riding in it at all times i would fab up my own design, but i would rather have a tried and tested design for the safety of all that ride in my rig.

 

I really applaud your attention to the saftey aspect of this type swap. Something will have to be fabbed up, and it would be as simple as the drag link. You could find a tie rod from an F150 that has the inverted "t" design, and install it righ to your knuckles. Then you would simply have to remove the pitman arm and re-index it to sweep from side to side and not front to rear. The sector is splined all the way around and will allow you to index the pitman every 90 degrees. Now just make up a drag link that connects the box to the factory tappered hole on the new tie rod, and you are done. Really nothing more than a threaded insert into a nice pice of DOM would be adequate. This keeps fab to a minimum, and you will only invest in minor components. Going out and buying a complete kit would cost money that could otherwise be spent on a true crossover, and that would defeat the purpose of trying to keep a budget in mind.
Now as far as the push / pull, and why it is not the greatest for lifted trucks and vehicles that see off road duty.
As the suspension cycles, and simply moves up and down, the short drag link is forced either foward or backward.
In other words, when the suspension compresses the drag link is forced foward. The opposite is true when the suspension extends.
One of two things will occur, (well they could occur at the same time) at this point, either the steering wheel is moved, or the wheels have to turn. If the tires are planted firmly on the ground, the steering wheel will be forced to turn making up the difference in travel. This is refered to as bumpsteer.
The more flex the trucks suspension has the worse this condition gets. It s entirely possible to have the driver side tire stuffed way up in the wheel well, and the steering wheel turned all the way one direction, and still have the wheel pointing straight. This is a bad situation off road. When the steering wheel is forced to move, you recieve this as feedback, again called bumpsteer.
As the truck recieves a lift kit the drag link has to be longer to compensate, and while drop drag links are made, and blocks are designed to be installed under the steering arm, it is just not the right way to correct this problem.
Designs that steer from the pass side knuckle or as close to it as possible have a very long drag link an this length keeps the arch and bumpsteer to a minimum. At this point there is only an issue when the pass side of the axle moves up and down, but the drag link is so long, the ill effects are minimal to the point that they are barely noticeable.
Kind of a sketchy explaination, bur I hope it helps.

 

i see what you mean. And i know that some people would consider this to be **** to worry that much about safety but with me if someone other then myself is going to be in my rig then there are no shortcuts that are deemed "safe" in my eyes.
I actually have a 79 f-150 that i can rob the tierod from and i can fab up the draglink. I am planning on running the drop pitman arm that skyjacker sells for the 6in. lift kit that goes with my truck. This should keep the draglink as parrallel as i can get it once it is all fabed up, thus hopefully eliminating the need for a bend in the draglink, but i will have to wait untill i get it lifted and the pitman arm into place before i can go about fabbing the draglink itself up.
But i was just thinking to my self...which is never good....since i really want to save the 79, what about a newer style truck, say an 85 f250. I know that it has the Twin Traction Beam Dana 50 but it should have the same inverted "t" style steering setup that i need right? If so i could use the draglink and tierod from it which is allready set up for the leaf sprung suspension. Or am i missing something here?

 

Well. whil this is a ggod thought, the later model TTB trucks have an inverted "y" style.
This style has a drag link that attaches to the pass side knuckle, and the driver side attaches to that link. This allows each end of the axle to move independantly.
This independant movement is required for the TTB to work properly.
This is also a poor design since the "toe" for each of the tires is constantly changing during suspension cycles.

 

Well damn the bad luck. I have heard of the different styles, but am unaware of what trucks came with the "t" setup and what trucks didnt. I am just worried that the 1/2 ton tierod wont be able to hold up to the pressure of turning the 40" tires. i guess i will just have to use what i have and if i bend the tierod then i will have to go from there.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...166921&width=0

I know that this is a crossover steering setup, but i thought that you had to move the tierod to the top of the knuckles as well? From the picture it looks like all i would need to do is index the pitman arm and get a hi steer knuckle adapter for the passenger side knuckle, which i remember reading somewhere is already flat-top. Does any of this sound right? I always thought that cross-over and hi-steer were the same thing. But i am realizing now that they arent.

 

Different ideas about high steer, and crossover steering.
High steer typically refers to the tie rod that connects the two tires together being re-located above the leaf spring. This requires two arms that are attached to the tops of the knuckles.
The crossover is simply a steering design that attaches the drag link to the pass side knuckle. In the case of the Dana 44, yes the steering arm will have to be attached, but the knuckle will have to be drilled and tapped.
I have the dimensions on a CAD file if you think they will help, but know that this is not cheap.

 

Ok it's been a while. Since we've talked I have tore down the truck to the frame, sandblasted and painted it. Pulled the front HD44 apart and cleaned it up and put fresh bearings and seals in it. I also sent the passenger side knuckle off to get it machined for the cross-over steering. I will post up some pics of the kit it is the only one that i have seen that has a milled in puzzle key to help take stress off the studs. I have the front axle put back together and ready to go and now im hunting for some superduty lift springs. My problem at this point is i have found brand new 8" springs for a f250 gas 99-04 superduty for $595, but i have no idea were to start for the rear. I know that the largest that the springs go in the rear is 6 inches for this year model truck. What are my options for getting the truck level with out running a 4" lift block?

 

Welcome back.
Great deal on the wprk you have done already, now it is time to shoot some pics so we can see some progress.
Alright since we spoke last, I have been working on tuning my springs, and I have them dialed in pretty good, but I have come to a crossroad, and have to make a decision.
Keep in mind that my truck is a highboy (73 to 77) and I had to fabricate shackles. Well the added flex and greater shock travel has provided me with a situation.
At full compression, the spring eye hits the frame, and will require a little work to resolve.
This may present itself as a problem if you plan on beating your truck as I do.
Image of Shackle limits - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Reading the caption under the pic will describe.

Now to the rear. You can build your own shackle flip, or purchase your own. A shackle flip with a stock shackle is worth roughly 4 to 6 inches with your existing spring.
You do have a choice to run tension style or compression style shackles, but either will require a different hanger, but the choice really is yours.
Image of rear shackle flip with 64" sping - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
Here is my shackle flip. I use a chebby 64 inch rear spring, and it is a stock half ton unit.
I am actually in the process of using a 2500 spring because the 1500 is too soft. Yes too soft. I carry a bit of recovery gear, and the back is pretty soft without much weight capacity. You can scroll through some of my pics, and see that the rear stuffs into the fenders real well, but I have to limit compression or they will eat the bed.
I picked up springs and hangers for less than 50 bucks I think, and since I had to remove the hangers already, I just positioned them accordingly, and viola, a decent system.
I did use a couple of the original bolt holes as a reference, to maintian proper axle alignment, and of course many measurements. Truck drives straight, and wears boggers as true as any truck out there. Matter of fact, thisone wears tires batter than the new super duty, lol.

 

i will get some pics posted up on monday, due to the truck being up in austin. Speaking of shock travel, what are my options there? I have seen adapters that are designed to take the post style shock and convert it to the eye hole style, but i have no idea where to start as to find out how big of a shock to order. I dont think that going into 4wheelparts will get me anywhere in this situation. They seem to just look at me stupid when i tell them i have a 79 f250 and i want lift springs for a 99-04 f250. I also plan on putting all of the pics together at the end of this build and making one large write up, with a smaller one dedicated to just the cross over steering setup.

 

Making stuff work, really makes it difficult to buy over the counter parts.
As far as your shocks, much has to do with exactly how high the truck sits, and how you intend to make your brackets for the upper and lower. Keep in mind that a simple "U" style adapter takes up some space, and may limit the shock length. My concerns are that the shock might end up a little short, and limit travel.
Other than the small variables, it is not too terribly difficult.
You will want to cycle the suspension to verify proper shock length.