stroker
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stroker
the 351m in my truck is ready to pop. so i was looking at building a stroker motor for it. i would like to get around 427 cubic inches. i have been looking through the old posts on this site and a few other sites. i've been able to find alot of info but i would like some input on this lanned build up.
i plan on have the block bored .030 over and having the crank offset ground to about 4.18 inches. the rods are going to come from a 240. the pistons are new from jegs with a 1.425 compression height. now i am going to have some material removed from the top of the pistons to make them even with the top of the deck.
now the roller lifters from a 302 will fit, but what needs to be done to make them work in the m block. this would be a cheap way to go to a roller cam.
the heads are kind of up in the air right now. have to see what i have and what i have. holley makes a MPFI kit now so that is a definite possibility right now. i am looking to get about 400 horse and about 500 ft-lbs of torque.
let me know what you think. later.....
i plan on have the block bored .030 over and having the crank offset ground to about 4.18 inches. the rods are going to come from a 240. the pistons are new from jegs with a 1.425 compression height. now i am going to have some material removed from the top of the pistons to make them even with the top of the deck.
now the roller lifters from a 302 will fit, but what needs to be done to make them work in the m block. this would be a cheap way to go to a roller cam.
the heads are kind of up in the air right now. have to see what i have and what i have. holley makes a MPFI kit now so that is a definite possibility right now. i am looking to get about 400 horse and about 500 ft-lbs of torque.
let me know what you think. later.....
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stroker
I've brought up this subject in the past but I get little feedback. I plan to stroke a 400 crank to 4.17, install custom pistons on 240 rods.
I'm not sure how much you can overbore a 400. I've heard .060 but it may vary depending on core shift.
The 240 rods are a good choice for a low buck 500 HP engine. An aftermarket Chevy size 6.8 rod would be my next choice for over 500HP.
I have a custom 4.5" crank for a 400, but I haven't test fitted it yet.
If you read the 380 HP 400 article I'm sure you will agree that 400 HP will be no problem with a stroked motor.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/400.html
I'd like to hear ShaZam's opinion on this.
I'm not sure where to find a source for 240 rods. They've also beened used in 460 strokers.
Some people say you can't spin the motor over 6K RPM. How fast and high do you think the 5.4 R model Mustang goes? Also 4.17" stroke.
I'm not sure how much you can overbore a 400. I've heard .060 but it may vary depending on core shift.
The 240 rods are a good choice for a low buck 500 HP engine. An aftermarket Chevy size 6.8 rod would be my next choice for over 500HP.
I have a custom 4.5" crank for a 400, but I haven't test fitted it yet.
If you read the 380 HP 400 article I'm sure you will agree that 400 HP will be no problem with a stroked motor.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/400.html
I'd like to hear ShaZam's opinion on this.
I'm not sure where to find a source for 240 rods. They've also beened used in 460 strokers.
Some people say you can't spin the motor over 6K RPM. How fast and high do you think the 5.4 R model Mustang goes? Also 4.17" stroke.
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stroker
the custom pistons would add alot of expense to the kit. i was looking to do this for less than a grand, but that may not be possible. any piston with a 4.00 bore should work. i was looking through my jeg's mag and they have a set of pistons (srp, i believe) that come real close on the compression height. i figured i would just have the extra on the top machined of to match the deck height of the block. it works out to like .035 so it shouldn't affect strength to much. the pistons are like 500 bucks for forged ones. jeg's has the 6.8 rods you were talking about for around 600 bucks. i think they are eagle rods. anyway thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated.
later.................
later.................
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stroker
It can be done for under $1000. Read about this guys 434C.
http://members.tripod.com/lyc_42/km434/km434.htm
I think I can do mine for close to that. I don't remember what it costs to off set grind the crank. I found some JE stroker pistons with no wear for $200.
http://members.tripod.com/lyc_42/km434/km434.htm
I think I can do mine for close to that. I don't remember what it costs to off set grind the crank. I found some JE stroker pistons with no wear for $200.
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stroker
great find on the JE stroker pistons. what's the compression height. i read the article you put in your post. that's where i got the idea from. i did some number crunching. the pistons kenny moore used where the standard chevy 350 pistons with a 1.538 comp. height. he milled .100 off to bring them down to 1.438. that left .015 above the deck which ended up giving a 10.2 c.r. to high for what i want. the pistons i found in jeg's have a comp. height of 1.425, which should leave approx .002 above the deck. that should bring the c.r. down to about 9.5:1. a little more livable. i'll figure it out later and let you know. plus with only .002 sticking out of the bore valve clearance should be less of an issue. i'll probably end up running a little more cam than he did though. i'll figure it out and post it later.
also kenny moore has a link on his site that shows how and where to port the 4v heads. wonder if it will work on the 2v 400 heads? i'm thinking it will. have to try and find out.
later..............
also kenny moore has a link on his site that shows how and where to port the 4v heads. wonder if it will work on the 2v 400 heads? i'm thinking it will. have to try and find out.
later..............
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From: Porterfield
stroker
>
>I have a custom 4.5" crank for a 400, but I haven't test
>fitted it yet.
Awsome Oh by the way where did you get a custom 4.500 stroked crank from anyway. I was thinking about my next build trying to go that far, to see if it would fit on a 400. I think it will ;-)
>
>If you read the 380 HP 400 article I'm sure you will agree
>that 400 HP will be no problem with a stroked motor.
>http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/400.html
>
>
>I'd like to hear ShaZam's opinion on this.
>
ShaZam's Opinion
You'll end up close to 500 H.p. easy if not more.
And if you need a block to check that 4.500 Stroked Crank in let me know I have a few lying around I'll get one on the engine stand and WE can start checking clearances.
>I'm not sure where to find a source for 240 rods. They've
>also beened used in 460 strokers.
>
Check your local Ford parts dept.
Make sure you get the 240 truck rod.
>Some people say you can't spin the motor over 6K RPM. How
>fast and high do you think the 5.4 R model Mustang goes?
>Also 4.17" stroke.
I don't believe in the word Can't......
>I have a custom 4.5" crank for a 400, but I haven't test
>fitted it yet.
Awsome Oh by the way where did you get a custom 4.500 stroked crank from anyway. I was thinking about my next build trying to go that far, to see if it would fit on a 400. I think it will ;-)
>
>If you read the 380 HP 400 article I'm sure you will agree
>that 400 HP will be no problem with a stroked motor.
>http://home.earthlink.net/~tcrocker/400.html
>
>
>I'd like to hear ShaZam's opinion on this.
>
ShaZam's Opinion
You'll end up close to 500 H.p. easy if not more.
And if you need a block to check that 4.500 Stroked Crank in let me know I have a few lying around I'll get one on the engine stand and WE can start checking clearances.
>I'm not sure where to find a source for 240 rods. They've
>also beened used in 460 strokers.
>
Check your local Ford parts dept.
Make sure you get the 240 truck rod.
>Some people say you can't spin the motor over 6K RPM. How
>fast and high do you think the 5.4 R model Mustang goes?
>Also 4.17" stroke.
I don't believe in the word Can't......
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stroker
Hey ShaZam,
ya gotta b kidding me. i was in no way expecting that much power. i decided on a cam. it's relatively mild since this motor is going in a daily driver. i'm gonna go with a crane powermax grind. it's the 272/284, 216/228 @ .050, and .524/.519 lift. along with a 750 cfm carb and four barrel intake. probably gonna use headers too. the 750 might seem big but i did the calclations (cid x max rpm divided by 3456 = cfm @ 100% V.E.). it works out to 741 cfm. the heads are only gonna get minor work, minor pocket porting, bowl blending, and exhaust work. basically what was done on the down and dirty rebuild.
still 500 horse easy sounds a little high. i was only looking for about 450 horse and the same on torque, but if more comes i ain't gonna turn it down. if ya get a chance plug this into your dyno thing and see what comes up. check on a cam with 226/230 @ .050 with .528/.536 lift. thanx
later.................
ya gotta b kidding me. i was in no way expecting that much power. i decided on a cam. it's relatively mild since this motor is going in a daily driver. i'm gonna go with a crane powermax grind. it's the 272/284, 216/228 @ .050, and .524/.519 lift. along with a 750 cfm carb and four barrel intake. probably gonna use headers too. the 750 might seem big but i did the calclations (cid x max rpm divided by 3456 = cfm @ 100% V.E.). it works out to 741 cfm. the heads are only gonna get minor work, minor pocket porting, bowl blending, and exhaust work. basically what was done on the down and dirty rebuild.
still 500 horse easy sounds a little high. i was only looking for about 450 horse and the same on torque, but if more comes i ain't gonna turn it down. if ya get a chance plug this into your dyno thing and see what comes up. check on a cam with 226/230 @ .050 with .528/.536 lift. thanx
later.................
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stroker
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-Jun-02 AT 03:37 PM (EST)]BTW, i forgot i found a site where you can find some con rods. most are forged, i think
www.racesearch.com
check it out.
later.............
www.racesearch.com
check it out.
later.............
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stroker
i just got off the phone with the local auto parts store. i found the 240 rods. cheap, too. according to his book the rods you want are the ones with the casting number C8AE-A. they are made by sealed power and they only cost $20 a piece plus shipping (auto store price here). shipping can't be that much. i'm gonna order them here shortly. i'll let ya know how things work out and i'm gonna get some maqchine shop prices to get this thing put together.
later..............
later..............
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stroker
The $200 JE pistons have a 1.1" compression height. They are for a 351C stroker engine I'm also working on. I used it as an example because I find them on Ebay all the time.
I think there's a custom piston close to the right comp. height available for a 351C using 6.03" 302C rods. It's a popular application in Australia but I don't know where to look for them. I was told the cost was about $100 more than the stock height piston.
I have a few questions for K Moore about his motor. Do you know how to contact him?
Have you heard of the story called the Cobra that Jack built? If I remember right, a long time ago.Jack Roush built a 400 stroker for his car. There were no aluminum 460 heads available 20 years ago, so he went with a 400. 540 HP with a very mild build. 2 4.5" cranks were ordered from a business in So California. Briant Racing inc. I bought the second one from a Roush liquidation sale found in Super Ford Magazine. $1500. I wonder what they would cost now.
I have a block but no bearings for a trial fit. I'm afraid of damaging the crank. It fit Roush's engine.
I think there's a custom piston close to the right comp. height available for a 351C using 6.03" 302C rods. It's a popular application in Australia but I don't know where to look for them. I was told the cost was about $100 more than the stock height piston.
I have a few questions for K Moore about his motor. Do you know how to contact him?
Have you heard of the story called the Cobra that Jack built? If I remember right, a long time ago.Jack Roush built a 400 stroker for his car. There were no aluminum 460 heads available 20 years ago, so he went with a 400. 540 HP with a very mild build. 2 4.5" cranks were ordered from a business in So California. Briant Racing inc. I bought the second one from a Roush liquidation sale found in Super Ford Magazine. $1500. I wonder what they would cost now.
I have a block but no bearings for a trial fit. I'm afraid of damaging the crank. It fit Roush's engine.
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From: space city
stroker
i've seen the 6.8 chevy rods on ebay pretty cheap
I-beam are like $230 or $260
H-beam are like $330 or $360
these are made by "eagle" & come complete w/ ARP rod bolts (maybe wave-loc)
most other rods available for similar price
been a month or two since i looked - sorry, memory is fuzzy!
those prices should be pretty close though. a couple different sellers with different prices.
that 4.16" $265 nodular 351W crank looks GOOD!
there has GOT to be a way to make it work in a 400... i'm thinking a spacer should take care of the timing gear, and maybe one between the end of the crank and the balancer - dunno...
seems like i saw some interesting pistons on the silvolite-keith black "strokers" page. i'm thinking zero deck or higher with 4v heads... they're hyper-U, but that may be okay, since i'm going to run N/A and don't really have gobs of $$$ for some forged slugs!
I-beam are like $230 or $260
H-beam are like $330 or $360
these are made by "eagle" & come complete w/ ARP rod bolts (maybe wave-loc)
most other rods available for similar price
been a month or two since i looked - sorry, memory is fuzzy!
those prices should be pretty close though. a couple different sellers with different prices.
that 4.16" $265 nodular 351W crank looks GOOD!there has GOT to be a way to make it work in a 400... i'm thinking a spacer should take care of the timing gear, and maybe one between the end of the crank and the balancer - dunno...
seems like i saw some interesting pistons on the silvolite-keith black "strokers" page. i'm thinking zero deck or higher with 4v heads... they're hyper-U, but that may be okay, since i'm going to run N/A and don't really have gobs of $$$ for some forged slugs!
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From: space city
stroker
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 12-Jul-02 AT 03:15 PM (EST)]these are BBC, and i think the ones with the right big-end size are SBC... gives a good idea of price though - these things look bulletproof!
http://.cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1842432373&r=0&t=0
http://.cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1842432373&r=0&t=0
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stroker
I'm working on it. The 351W stroker crank has only 1 problem. My best guess is the rod journals are for small block chevy. Either 2 or 2.1". Your mission, should you decide to accept, is to find a reasonably priced custom rod 6.8" or close with those journals. All the Cleveland stroker pistons seem to have a .927" pin.
The timing gear may be as easy as flipping it over to make it line up again, or make a spacer out of an old gear.
The balancer may work on the 1/2" shorter crank as is or a spacer can be made (easy) and a longer bolt added.
The timing gear may be as easy as flipping it over to make it line up again, or make a spacer out of an old gear.
The balancer may work on the 1/2" shorter crank as is or a spacer can be made (easy) and a longer bolt added.