could someone clue me in on the details about adding the external oil line on a 351m. thanks

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 30-Aug-02 AT 01:41 PM (EST)]I never did it, but they say it helps the oiling in the rear most main bearings. You run a line from the port on the drivers side front of the engine, back to the port in the top center of the block behind the manifold. When I was contemplating doing it, I was thinking about getting ferrule fittings and using 5/16 metal fuel line, so it would last and maybe look like something instead of a hose laying on the engine that could rot and get a hole in it. My engine was a 351c, but they have the same oiling system. Also I was going to put a tee in the rear fitting in the block so I could run an oil pressure guage.

 

>could someone clue me in on the details about adding the
>external oil line on a 351m. thanks

OK I found this a while back .. Good Reading "ShaZam"

I saw this posted on another forum. This guy says the external line is a waste and a
gimmick. I just wanted to hear what you thought. I'm going to put my motor back
together soon and was wondering what you think.

Qoute: "The external oil line to the rear on a Cleveland dosen't do a thing....just a
new gimmick sold to make $, and used by people that don't even know what the
351C oil circuit is, how it works, or how to study it.. Normally, the oil is fed to the
pass side lifter galley from the pump on 351C and 429, and that external line only
feeds the same pass side galley , only from the rear of engine. No need to feed the
galley from both ends. It is already getting full pressure fed from the front. One
route just's take away more oil from the other, from the one same oil pump. Trust
me, I studied at the Jack Roush school of engines!"
This is absolutely true. We build and race clevelands and the main problem with
the oil system is in the front cam bearing oil feed. If you study it closely you will
see that the oil feed hole to the front cam bearing is supplied directly from the main
oil pump feed, the oil goes to the cam journal in one direction and back down to the
crankshaft main journal from the oil feed hole that is supposed to supply oil to the
cam journal. Study it closely and you will see what I mean. Putting the oil restrictor
in the no 1 main does not do a thing . What you have to do is tap the oil feed hole
for no 1 cam journal riht behind the bearing, this requires a very long tap, you then
put the restrictor right up there. You then plug the hole in the no 1 main journal
with a screwin plug.Put the other restrictors in the other mains as normal. And while
your at it you can also make a restrictor for the no 1 main bearing oil supply to
make it the same size as the rest, if you look at it you will see that it is about 20%
larger than the rest. If you do some serious racing have the lifter bores bushed as
well because the restrictor in the mains only work for one side lifter bores, if you
study this closely you will see what I am talking about. We found this out the hard
way, and a very costly way. We now race all season and do teardowns at the end
and you can use the bearings again. This is good ole AUSSIE engineering, and you
guys thought you knew it all.
That was some of the most in depth info I have seen about where to put the
restrictors I think I have ever seen. I dont run the oil line either as I felt it wasnt a
worthwhile addition. I do have the restrictors in the mains per Moroso's instructions.
I have read about bushing the lifter bores, but around here trying to find someone
to do it is a real neat trick. My motor sees 8k rpm and is probably on the ragged
edge of needing some more oil system mods. So far though, the rod and main
bearings look good at the end of a season.
you also forget as the oil travels from the front to back you are loosing pressure
put a pressure at the front back at the back of the galley and see how much you are
loosing you will be surprized. yes i have one one with a braided line going to the
back and i have a high volunm oil pump works fine for me. Now putting restrictors
in is fine for the race track you are not running for a long time and changing out
valve springs. For the street it has not been recommended to do this there are some
books out there were they talk about this (engine builders). also the oil going to the
top is used to cool the valve springs so doing this in a street car not a good idea.
food for thought nascar uses a spray bar to spray engine oil to cool the valve springs
they are listed in the current ford motorsports catalog


this mod is only recomended for engines with mechanical or solid roller cams. Yes
we have made our valve covers with the spray bar and I also have external oil
returns from the valve covers to the pan.I do circut racing with mine where it is
constantly between 5000 and 7200rpm. I run over 700thou lift and springs with
over 600lb open pressure. With my setup the springs only dropped 5-7lb after a full
seoson of racing. Obviously there are other things that come into play here such as
spring heights valve lengths and overall rocker geometry, but these are all things
that have to be done when planning and building the engine for your particular
application


> What you have to do is tap the oil feed hole for no 1 cam journal riht behind the
bearing, this requires a very long tap, you then put the restrictor right up there.

Q. So you tap the whole length and put the restrictor inbetween the Main oil Gallery
& the cam journal?

Q. Do you use Morroso restrictors, or do you make your own?

Q. If you mmake your own, do you make them from barstock, and are you willing to
supply dimensions?

Q. Is this the reason you see so many damaged no. 1 cam journals in factory
motors?

>You then plug the hole in the no 1 main journal with a screwin plug.

Q. Totally blocking off the what is meant to be the cam bearing oil supply?

Put the other restrictors in the other mains as normal. And while your at it you can
also make a restrictor for the no 1 main bearing oil supply to make it the same size
as the rest, if you look at it you will see that it is about 20% larger than the rest.

Q. This is where the main oil gallery has been drilled, hence the large size.


If you do some serious racing have the lifter bores bushed as well because the
restrictor in the mains only work for one side lifter bores, if you study this closely
you will see what I am talking about.

Q.Does this limit the oil supply by having a narrower hole? Availability of bushes?


Q. Oil pumps. 3 theories. Currently running no. 1, and reinforcing end of pump by
running second plate. What is your opinion?

1. Std pump, 100 PSI spring.
2. Hi Vol pump, normal presure.
3. Std pump, std pressure, as high volume/ pressure is a waste of horsepower, and
will overcome the oil control rings leading to detonation.

yes put the restrictor in behind the cam bearing. Yes plug the oil hole in the mains
that supplies no 1 cam bearing. It does not starve the cam bearing because the
supply gallery to no 1 cam bearing comes directly from the main oil feed. in the
standard form oil from the main supply goes up to the cam bearing and down to the
main, the oil gallery to no 1 cam is actually intersected by the main feed so instead
of the oil coming up from the main bearing it goes in two directions from the main
oil supply thats why you plug the oil gallery to no 1 cam bearing in the no 1
main.Use the same size grub screw as the oil restrictor to block it off. The oil supply
hole in no 1 main is also larger than the rest when it does'nt have to be, use a oil
gallery plug with the same size hole in it as the rest, tap the hole and fit it. As far as
lifter bushes go most competent machine shops can fit these, I dont know whats in
yor area but you should be able to get someone in Melbourne that can do this. Hope
this clarifies things.

I read all the info and running the external line made sense to me. So, I ran
it. I've crunched 3 engines. All have had problems with the #4 and/or #8
rod bearing. It has either failed completely or spun. So, I looked at it closer,
and read all the stuff from the early 70's. I came to the conclusion the
external line simply takes half of you oil supply and feeds it directly to the
number 5 main and drivers lifters. Which starves the #4 main, which in turn
starves the #4 and #8 rod. So, I say use at your own risk. It only makes
sense if you don't really understand the oiling system. If some one was
dead set on using the ext line, I would make it really small, and plug the
feed tube from the drivers side lifter galley down to the number 5 main. This
may prevent a flow problem as the front and rear would no longer be
fighting to supply the middle of the passenger side lifter galley. Just my
thoughts.

Last item....I found no mention of Bud Moore, or Dyno Don, or Lee Hunter using the
external line as it is sold today.

Most of the older articles I've read refer to the Hank the Crank setup for oiling the
mains. An external line was brought from the front of the block main oil gallery and
was hooked to a "Y" connection at the rear of the block. One end of the Y went to
the hole in the block that the oil pressure sender was in. The other end of the Y
went to a new line that was run into the lifter valley. New holes were drilled and
tapped into the block from the valley directly to each main bearing. The "Y" branch
line ran to each of these new holes. If you were running extended rpms for any
length of time, this would probably be the way to go.

As for restrictors, I'm using a Crane hydraulic roller. Crane recommends that you DO
NOT use any restrictors on their hydraulic cams.

 

so i would be safe to assume that at this point the additional line would be a fruitless adventure. the trucks gauge falls to the extreme side of low at warm idle. the crazy old engine never smokes and is a little noisey in the valve train. i plan on removing and going a different from the 'm', but wanted to get the low down on the add on line. heck i figured the line if it worked would allow me to continue to use the m a while longer. thanks

 

My 400 is in the exact same condition. I installed a high volume pump and it helped a little, I think it gave me a couple of extra years. When I drive for more than about 20 minutes in hot weather (90+) the lifters start rattling and I loose power. When I loose power the engine gets hotter and the oil pressure goes lower. I will be pulling the engine soon for a rebuild.

When I pull the engine I will be studying the oiling system and running calculations on oil velocities and pressure drops in the system. It is supposedly a plain old regular V8 engine oil system but there just might be some small problems. There are just too many "stories" out there. It seems that where there is smoke there may be fire, -it bears investigation.

 

anybody know where i can find a drawing of the system?

 

To further the oil line discussion. This is what I have always gone by.

never run a hv pump unless your running over 6500rpm on a consistant basis.

the external line is not needed unless you run a hv pump. (now i know that a lie.)

a 6qt pan is usually the best pan to have.

now i have never had an oil related problem with any cleveland i have owned. the worst thing i had happen was when the connecting rod on #7 broke after abount 2 hours of 6500+rpm running at @ 1500-2500ft. i do know that i can really abuse a cleveland, im good at that.

 

>never run a hv pump unless your running over 6500rpm on a
>consistant basis.

Why? Is there an explanation for this?

>
>the external line is not needed unless you run a hv pump.
>(now i know that a lie.)

The external line would only make up for some internal restriction in the block. A restriction causes a pressure drop accross it which varies with flow rates. The external line would act as a parallel circuit and lower the flow rate thru the restriction, and the pressure drop, no matter which pump was used.

>a 6qt pan is usually the best pan to have.

You mean a 5qt with one in the filter? The more the merrier.

>now i have never had an oil related problem with any
>cleveland i have owned. the worst thing i had happen was
>when the connecting rod on #7 broke after abount 2 hours of
>6500+rpm running at @ 1500-2500ft. i do know that i can
>really abuse a cleveland, im good at that.

What failed and where? Was it lube related, a stress riser at the rod bolt or elsewhere, or a fastener? If you have enough pieces left you can usually tell, -if you know what to look for.

The only problem I have is a lack of oil pressure on my 78 400.

I sometimes wonder if there was a quality control problem in the oil passage drilling operation. Maybe some drillings failed to line up properly or some drillings did not go deep enough which left some restrictions. Or some burrs were left after the drill operations that weren't removed. Cast iron usually doesn't have much of a problem with burrs tho... I have seen Ford cranks that had oil passages that weren't drilled all the way thru. It does not take too many problems to start a rumor:-)

 

>anybody know where i can find a drawing of the system?
Here's the link to a page with the oiling pic on it, I tried to copy it on here but I just can't get it to work .


http://members.tripod.com/lyc_42/fordv8/cleve/cleve.htm

Here's the infamous Cleveland oiling system. Despite all the bull##### from the ragazines
it's a perfectly ordinary V8 oiling system - same as the 460, same as Pontiac, Oldsmobile,
and Cadillac V8s, and same as Chevrolet's 2.8 and 4.3 V6s.

 

One thing I HAVE heard is that you ought not run a HV pump without a big oil pan and/or oil return modifications as you can end up with a dry sump and hence no oil at all for the bearings etc due to all the oil accumulating at the top of the engine. Hence, I think, the not above about running oil return lines from the rocker covers to the sump.

 

the reason for not running a hv pump is its not needed. when you add the hv pump, you start to run into need a 8qt or larger and then the oil mods people will sell you on. the stock oil pump lasted me 2 years when i was road rallying in PA in the 80's.


the rod bolts broke, they just sheered in half, the rod cap dropped in the pan, and the piston impacted the head, it snapped the head in two pieces. I loved that car, cause it took 2 cases of oil, but i got it home. the internal looked new, so it was just a freak thing.

 

I build myself a bigger oil pan last spring. I took a rear sump truck pan and a front sump Car pan and cut the front sump out and added it to the rear of the truck pan. I didn't know how much bigger it was going to be untill I filled it the first time 14 Qts. But I never had a oiling problem after I Changed out those bad Lifters I had in there.

Now I have oil pressure up the wazoo and know I can hold it a 8000 Rpm all day and never run out of oil.

ShaZam