My logic is just as valid as yours................

You cannot tell what a filter will do or how it will perform by looking at it. That is what most of the so called "studies" are about.

Consumer Reports is not that reliable. They are selective.

You have not shown one iota of data to support your contention that Fram is a bad filter. jd

 

Sorry guys, I have to agree with Jim on this one, none of you have yet to show us proof. Show me some blown up motors, or a vastly comprehensive bearing study, anyting more than you have shown me, which to date is why the oil and gas prices are so high..................pure speculation.

 

Well how about an old filter test I posted here years ago.
http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html

Or a newer test run by ASE & others & discussed on Noria a few years ago, but is still valid, as it discusses the ASE paper 881825, in which engine wear verses particle size was studied.

From this study & some info gathering about our filter of choice, test results, we can make judgements about a filters ability to do it's thing & the different sites that have opened & measured different filters surface media area & construction type & quality, we could infer which filter is likely deserving of our purchase gold.
http://forums.noria.com/eve/forums/a...95/m/334102788

But all that overlooks another important filter we've not discussed & thats air filters, a constant source of wear particle ingestion that our engines lube & oil filter must deal with!!!!

 

Well I don't know if Fram filters fall apart or have cardboard in them or that they don't filter you oil right.I do know that they leaked on my 89 2.9 Ranger.EVERY DARN ONE I put on it.It leaked about a qt. between oil changes.{3000 oil changes}Started using Motorcraft filters and the same oil,no more leaks.
Thats why I don't use Fram filters.

 

1. The comparably priced Motorcraft and Fram filters differ in that the Motorcraft has a silicone anti-drainback valve (The "S" in 820S). Fram uses a nitrile rubber anti-drainback in their filter in this price range, and uses silicone in their higher-priced filters--and on their own website says silicone is superior. No data about engines blowing up here, but Ford valvetrains do better with anti-drainback valves that work better in all temps and conditions, which silicone does, according to Fram. IMO this is more than an iota, and it is construction data.

2. The relief valve on the Motorcraft is on the bottom end of the filter; any condition which would result in oil passing through the relief valve would result in cleaner oil pass-thru in the Motorcraft because it's not passing thru the dirty side of the element.

Even assuming the actual filtration and quality control was equal (and I have some reason to think it's not quite equal), these two construction details would make me lean toward the Motorcraft. If you believe my logic is faulty here, please provide your own superior logic.

I'll let the other stuff go, because it *just* doesn't matter to me that much and I'm really bored with this thread. I'm sure there are 200k mile engines that have used Frams as well as Motorcraft filters and other brands, but I'll go for Motorcraft for the silicone anti-drainback alone on my Ford van.

George

 

"almost" prego....I love it!

 

That is fine. Use what you think best, but also leave that option to the rest of us without telling us our logic is that of a clown, and it is "hilarious" because we don't take Fram haters at their word. Words are cheap, and without backup, useless.

It doesn't matter what the makeup of the filter is, how things are placed, etc., if it does it's job. I have seen no data of huge failure rates of Fram products, or damage caused by these products, and that would get my attention. jd

 

You can say that exact same thing about GM/Ford/Dodge/RCA/Sony/Panasonic/whirlpool/ etc., etc.

It's just the way the world works. Greed makes it go around.

 

Looks like KIA's aren't into Fram Oil Filters, either:
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nanasano


Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2
Gallery: 0

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My daughter took Sportage 4 cylinder to Wal-Mart for oil and filter change. They informed her they could not change oil because a recall of Fram filter made for the Sportage. They told her that the Fram filter was rupturing or blowing gasket out of filter and said she should take her vehicle to KIA for service. Does anyone know what is going on? Wal-mart has changed the oil and filter a couple times before this without hesitation. If this is going on can she use a different brand of filter? KIA told her to use KIA filter when she called the dealership to inquire about this situation. Thanks for any help.

 

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Here is a follow up on the Orange Exploder:
FRAM oil filter danger
FLASH!!! (April 14 1995) Due to several recent failures during races in the U.S., FRAM has announced a recall of several models of FRAM oil filters, and racing organizations have banned these filters. Several racers suffered serious injuries when their oil filters literally blew apart, causing them to crash.
Affected models are 6004, 6005, and 6017. The 6004 and 6005 are cartridge (internal type) and the 6017 is a spin-on. The 6017 has a faulty crimp attaching the filter can to the base. The 6017 is what FRAM suggests for the Honda VFR750 (among many other bikes).

Here is the text of a posting to the racing mailing list with further details. (I did not write this.)


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"I just got off the phone with a very helpful woman at Allied-Signal, owners of Fram Filters. They are issuing a recall on Fram motorcycle oil filters model PH6017 that were made in Korea and sold to dealers between January 1, 1995 and March 16, 1995. This filter has the threads cut wrong and could blow off resulting in rapid loss of oil, crashing, injury, terminal engine damage, etc.

"This model is a spin on filter that fits many popular Honda, Kawasaki and Yamahas--no other brand. I do not have a complete listing of the models. Maybe some kind soul out there will look on the box and post the list. However, if your filter isn't a spin on, then it is not recalled. (But read on for information about other "reclaims.")

"The RECALL only applies to PH6017 filters that were sold to dealers between January 1, 1995 and March 16, 1995. If you bought a PH6017 filter in, say, November 1994, then your filter is okay.

"The easy way to tell if your filter is suspect: The bad filters were all made in Korea. The filter itself will have "Made in Korea" in silver letters on the bottom after it says "Allied-Signal." Those filters stamped "Made in the Phillippines" are okay.

"If you have a Fram spin on filter model PH6017, check it out. Fram is taking responsibility in some way for damage caused by the bad part. You'll need to contact them in order to find out about making a claim.

"Return any bad filters, new or used, to your dealer for a refund. Fram does not have any replacement filters available. They recommend that you buy the OEM filter, or another brand.

"Fram is also issuing a "reclaim" on some other filter models. They say that there is NO SAFETY PROBLEM with these. I don't know why they are issuing the reclaim, but I'll post that info when I get it.

"That's about it. Please check your filter. One blew off on the front straight at Loudon this weekend and left an engine full of oil on the ground in a great big hurry

 

This problem is common knowledge. Fram had a bad run of filters for motorcycles. This can happen to any mfgr, and especially in the numbers produced by Fram. It was also over 10 years ago. Do you have any data from the year 1912 on automobile failures? It would make as much sense.

If you are going to condemn any product that has these problems, you will not use any product. They had the problem, corrected it and moved on. Too bad some consumers can't do the same thing. jd

 

Wow, I know I said I was bored with this thread...

1. First direct question...in at least two of my posts above, I brought up the specific issue of anti-drainback valves. On their base $3.50 filter, Fram uses nitrile, Motorcraft and some others use silicone. Fram will sell you silicone for another $3 or so and themselves say silicone is better. Why on earth, in this application, would you choose the Fram over the Motorcraft?

2. Do you have any relationship whatsoever to Fram, its suppliers, etc, which would cause you to defend Fram in the face of all of the common knowledge of their cheap internal construction at the basic price point? Literally EVERY photo of a dismantled Fram makes me nervous.

If you could just provide answers to these Q's I'd appreciate it.

As an old guy and gearhead, it is my nature, when buying a product, to look at how it's made. For instance, if I go to the store to buy a lawn sprinkler, or a toaster oven, or a wristwatch, I look at construction details and use them as *one* criteria for making my choice. If there are two sprinklers or toaster ovens which cost the same, and have the same warranty, I will still buy the one which appears better made and/or uses sturdier materials (or materials that will perform better). Or, if I have access to performance testing info, would buy the one that waters my lawn better or makes better toast.

With basic analog wristwatches, I might have the choice of a $45 Timex, a $150 Swiss Army watch, or a $250 Seiko, a $500 Tag Heuer, and a $5000 Rolex. All of these will work "good enough" to get me places on time. Being an old retired guy with a kid in college, my personal choices have been the $150 Swiss Army watch when it was on sale for $90, and, for camping, or working on my car, I have a $45 Timex that I bought for half off on Black Friday.

If all these watches were the same price, I'd choose the Rolex. If I found the Seiko on sale for half off, might buy one of those for my "good" watch. (I actually have a Seiko from 1967 that my son still sometimes wears).

But the Timex is "good enough". Dead accurate. But if it fails, I might be late one time. If it runs slow or fast, it would be a pain and I'd probably throw it away. If my oil filter fails or doesn't *quite* do its job, I may never know, but my engine might last *slightly* less long. Big problem with oil filters is that every one is a "little black box"--almost wished they could use clear cans on them so I could look at all of the glue joints, as I do when buying an air filter or cannister oil filter.

My earlier words from Krusty the Clown were not intended to call you a clown, but his "words of wisdom" seem to apply very specifically to any and every argument you make in favor of Fram filters (I make exception for Frams which are relabeled alternative brands): "It's not just good, it's GOOD ENOUGH" My Timex is good enough too, but if I can get a better watch for the same price, I'll buy that.

Intended to be respectful, and I'm really done now,
George

 

GEORGE, your POINT #1 says it all, and frankly, my beleif behind this whole Fram debate. For the same price, or very slightly more in price (even slightly less in many examples) we can buy an oil filter equal to, or better than Fram.

Based on how we know Fram oil filters are constructed, I would say it's the later, less $$ for a better oil filter.

I'm done here too... LOL

Ed

 

I really opened a can of worms with this thread!!! All I wanted to know is if I should replace my fram tough gaurd with a different filter BEFORE my next oil change. LOL

 

...and there is great passion when discussing oil filters. They cost way less than my Timex watch, but the potential consequences are really great. This little can costs as much as a hamburger, but if it goes bad, it can cause the destruction of an engine to the tune of $2-5000 or even more. If my Timex watch stops or keeps bad time, usually the worst that can happen is that I am late to work or miss an appointment--I suppose being late to work *could* cost a job worth far more than the engine, but there is redundancy in timekeeping--my cell phone has the time, my car clock has the time, and the radio station I'm listening to tells me the time at least every 10 minutes. (Or I could miss the ship on my pre-paid $5000 tropical cruise, but again, there are clocks all over.)

A bad oil filter is more like a "silent killer" which might be like my $3.50 hamburger causing me food poisoning which kills me--I'd guess there are fewer fatal hamburgers than there are fatal oil filters (or that the human body is more fault tolerant than an engine), and if I get a case of food poisoning with a slightly bad burger, I spend the night "driving the porcelain bus" and get better, whereas if I get a slightly bad oil filter, I may not know immediately, but in the long haul I *might* need some engine work down the road which empties my bank account. And the burger, if bad, would likely smell or look funny, whereas the oil filter is a little "black box" that you have to have faith in--the fact that we NEVER KNOW what's inside of the filter we're screwing on (unless we cut it open after use, and then it's too late) is creepy. It's almost like religion (and discussions thereof) where you may only know you're right after you die...and wouldn't it be ironic if God was really Krusty the Clown? 8-)

As I said in my first reply to you, I would not worry about a Fram for an oil change cycle or three; if I were on a desert island that only stocked Frams, I would use them--but would pay the bucks for the high end ones if I could. With what I know from multiple Internet sources, I choose not to use Frams for reasons beaten to death.

The one exception for you might be if you notice a bunch of valve train noise at startup, indicating an inefficient anti-drainback valve. In that case, I'd unscrew the Fram *or any other filter* and put on something I believe to be better along with a half quart of oil.

George