engine details
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Junior User
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From: middle Georgia
engine details
I have a friend who has a 91 f150 4x4 with a tired motor and a slipping trans. He is wanting to go with a carb set up on a 351m, 351cl, 429 or a 460 with a c6 behind it. He has acsess to all of the above engines but dosent know which to build. My question is whats the difference between the engines, which is better for torque. I have been asked to help but I am new to fords and really cant offer much advice so what do y'all think. Is there anywhere I can get info like strokes and bores and weights and tq and hp ratings on these things online? Thanks
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Delaware
The 351M, 351C, and 400 motors are 335 series motors. You can find a lot of information on those here and/or do a search on Bubba's M Block for more information.
The 429 and 460 motors are 385 series motors. You should go to the 385 series forum for inforation on those.
Generally the larger cubic inch engines will give you the most torque at low RPMs.
The 351C-4V is the highest reving of those motors and will give you very high peak Horsepower if built right.
The 429 and 460 motors are 385 series motors. You should go to the 385 series forum for inforation on those.
Generally the larger cubic inch engines will give you the most torque at low RPMs.
The 351C-4V is the highest reving of those motors and will give you very high peak Horsepower if built right.
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they´re the same except for pistons and crank which can be bought at a very cheap price at www.tmeyerinc.com....
id go wih any of the bigger engines, or tke the 351m and buy pistons crank and camshaft.....cheap and easy....
id go wih any of the bigger engines, or tke the 351m and buy pistons crank and camshaft.....cheap and easy....
I'll have the Roast Duck
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Northshore, MN
what's in the '91 originally? If a 302/351W, then the 351C will directly swap in, short of exhaust, carb etc..., but the 351M ( I'd just go 400) should bolt in (atleast it did for me in an '83), but the trans bell pattern will be wrong. 460 will require engine mount mods. If it had a 460 originally, I'd find another 460. If it had a 300 I6, I think you'll be looking at mount mods regardless. That said, $ for $, swapping in a 460 will cost the most. The 429 will be the same as the 460. The 351M will be cheaper, but still will cost. The cleveland will be cheaper, but is not ideal for torque. IMO it's a pick-yer-poison type thing.
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From: Sin City, USA
Originally Posted by havi
what's in the '91 originally? If a 302/351W, then the 351C will directly swap in, short of exhaust, carb etc...,
The cleveland will be cheaper, but is not ideal for torque. IMO it's a pick-yer-poison type thing.
The cleveland will be cheaper, but is not ideal for torque. IMO it's a pick-yer-poison type thing.
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From: middle Georgia
He has a 351m which everyone is telling him is the same motor as the 400m. He can get any of the others from his uncle for cheep. His 91 has a 302 and E4OD trans but all that will be changed. Between us both we have the capabilitys of fabing anything we need so that woulnt be a problem. This truck will be turning at least 36's at first and probly larger later on in the year so torque is a must.
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I'll have the Roast Duck
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Northshore, MN
Originally Posted by gamudslinger88
He has a 351m which everyone is telling him is the same motor as the 400m. He can get any of the others from his uncle for cheep. His 91 has a 302 and E4OD trans but all that will be changed. Between us both we have the capabilitys of fabing anything we need so that woulnt be a problem. This truck will be turning at least 36's at first and probly larger later on in the year so torque is a must.
Last edited by havi; Feb 16, 2008 at 09:46 AM.
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From: Mandan, ND
Everyone has a right to thier own opinion... I would not even mess with a 351m, unless you have a large boat that needs an anchor. I see a lot of people saying a built 400 will perform as well as a 460, well a stock 460 maybe. If you perform the same mods on a 400 vs. a 460, dollar for dollar, the 460 will come out on top, barring fuel economy and weight considerations. I am currently replacing the 400 in my 78 F250 SC 4by with a 460 out of a 78 ford motorhome. Interestingly this is a non emissions engine with a factory 4bbl. I have run into snags because I want to keep my 4 speed, but if you stick with an automatic the trans from a 400 or 351m will bolt up readily. As one of the other users said, 'pick your poison'. By the way there is a company called L and L industries that makes motor mounts to put a big block in most any Ford truck. Also motor mount adapers can be readily found on ebay.
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From: Delaware
Originally Posted by NDFordman
a built 400 will perform as well as a 460, well a stock 460 maybe. If you perform the same mods on a 400 vs. a 460, dollar for dollar, the 460 will come out on top,.
That may not be important in a heavy motorhome, but to a lighter vehicle trying to keep 70 MPH it will make a difference.
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From: Mandan, ND
I see your point, I am no expert on horsepower curves, but doesn't the 400's ability to breath sort of drop off at higher RPM's? I guess the research I have done indicated that the 460's potential for high RPM horsepower surpasses the 400. I would also say toque is a greater factor in a full size pickup than HP. It boils down to what you want from your truck I guess. I personally need steady pulling power and am not as concerned about going 1/4 mile in a hurry, so a big block suits my needs better.
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From: Delaware
Originally Posted by NDFordman
I see your point, I am no expert on horsepower curves, but doesn't the 400's ability to breath sort of drop off at higher RPM's? I guess the research I have done indicated that the 460's potential for high RPM horsepower surpasses the 400. I would also say toque is a greater factor in a full size pickup than HP. It boils down to what you want from your truck I guess. I personally need steady pulling power and am not as concerned about going 1/4 mile in a hurry, so a big block suits my needs better.
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From: Mandan, ND
Sort of got off the subject... I didn't mean to start a discussion about 400 vs. 460 here, so back to the original question... Out of the engines listed the cleveland would seem to be the logical choice, but they are expensive to rebuild and finding one without cracks in the heads can be tough, which is a problem I've run into with 351c/351m/400 heads myself. However if you decide to build a cleveland or 351m/400, the australian ford heads (check out ebay) seem to be the hot ticket, as they have the 2v cleveland intake runners and are closed chamber to up the compression ratio. This should help with low end throttle response. Another drawback of the cleveland was the small size of the main bearing journals, which ford corrected when they built the 351m/400. I guess we could go back and forth on 400 vs. 460 for days and probably end up with all sorts of people getting involved, but that is about like the old Ford vs. all the other manufacturers who wish they could build trucks like Ford.
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From: Sin City, USA
Originally Posted by NDFordman
Sort of got off the subject... I didn't mean to start a discussion about 400 vs. 460 here, so back to the original question... Out of the engines listed the cleveland would seem to be the logical choice, but they are expensive to rebuild and finding one without cracks in the heads can be tough, which is a problem I've run into with 351c/351m/400 heads myself. However if you decide to build a cleveland or 351m/400, the australian ford heads (check out ebay) seem to be the hot ticket, as they have the 2v cleveland intake runners and are closed chamber to up the compression ratio. This should help with low end throttle response. Another drawback of the cleveland was the small size of the main bearing journals, which ford corrected when they built the 351m/400. I guess we could go back and forth on 400 vs. 460 for days and probably end up with all sorts of people getting involved, but that is about like the old Ford vs. all the other manufacturers who wish they could build trucks like Ford.