I thought about putting this in the garage section, but thought maybe I'd get better response here.

Check out my pic:



The orange flagged line reresents the face of whatever wall I build.

I don't want to move my fence, and the enclosed carport I scored off of Craigslist won't fit with out a little more cut in the rear corner and something to stabilize the area.

Highest point of wall will be in the corner at just about 36", with most of it at 24"-30".

Now, I thought about treated wood.

I felt that it was expensive, and not the best option.

I went and looked at those interlocking landscape wall blocks, and felt they were too expensive.

I've located some cheap conder block, but that would need a footer, and I don't like the looks.

So I was trying to convince myself about the cinder block, and was on a job site today.

They had blasted for a new home footing and have lots of nice rock. All sizes and shapes, I can take as much as I want.

So my question is, if I choose to use the natual stone, would I need a concrete footer?

Could I get away with a highly compacted gravel footer? Thats what the interlocked landscpae blocks sit on.

Should I mortar the large stones together?

Tight stack them?

Would silt fence or a like material be good behind the stone wall, if so, what is the best cheap option?

Do I need gravel backfill up against the stone wall?

Really like the idea of a stone wall, I need to do something of this fashion at my basement walkout, so I am intrigued about this.

Once last thing, this is to be of utmost functional cheapness. Things are very, very tight.

So if I can build this wall for a tank or two of fuel, my labor to load/unload the stones, and some shovel cutting of the wall face, then by all means, I want to pursue that direction.

My main concerns are above, the footing, if nessecarry, and the mortoring of it all, if nessecarry.

Many thanks.

Let's have some good input. Long weekend, I want to get a bunch done.

Blair

 

Have you thought about looking for someone wanting to give away clean fill and raising the whole area?

 

Concrete blocks on top of a proper concrete footing with rebar in it.

Rebar in the blocks.

Blocks filled with concrete.

Concrete floor with rebar on at least 24" centers.

Stone over that with mortar. IF the stone is flat. If not, fill around the outside with it and some smaller gravel over a French drain.

Call me silly, I just don't like buildings that fall in a driving rain.

 

Stacked Stone or rock isn't going to be stable..especially for carrying a load.

Why not dig post holes and concrete some 6" I-beam vertical every 6 ft or so and level the wall front to back after sliding 4" x 6" or 6' x 6"'s in between the vertical I-Beams ......have a gravel base underneath it ?

 

No. I was thinking of keeping the driveway level with the future building pad.

I could raise it, but if I rasied it back up to the point where the need for a wall would diminish, then it would be too high without building up the driveway, which is up against the house.


I'm completely with you on what you are saying. That is immensly expensive though. (At least on my budget even with me doing the work)

NO floor under this building at this time, it's a glorified enclosed steel carport, I'm on a 5 year plan to build a large pole barn. That will be over 40 x 40, so no floor for now.

Just want to stabilize that corner, as it will stay the same when I build the big building in several years.

Would the larger stone be stable with a concrete footing and mortared together though?

It's not a controlled fill. That small slope where I cut it out has been that way over two years, it's filled with tree roots, I think it's pretty stable as it is.

Your ideas sounds intriging. I was thinking of erecting a wall using all treated wood, but it would more than likely surpass the cost of the cinder block wall.

I don't know, I have lots to think about.

Thanks for the input

Blair

 

I don't know what kind of frost you get there in Virginia but up here a mortared wall w/ no footing would self destruct unless it had some serious reinforcement, making it into a grade beam sitting on compacted gravel.
Concrete's expensive, heck, gravel is expensive if you're talking triaxles of it.
Forget about wood.

JMO, but,
3' is not too much to hold back and it looks fairly dry so I think if you made it plumb @ the face and wider at the base (thinking 18" deep @ the top, 32"@ the base, cut back into the berm) w/ filter fabric behind and a pipe to daylight at the bottom, a tightly laid dry wall on compacted gravel would hold, as long as those roots don't blow it out over time.
Do you have a backhoe or something to move all that material?
You'll have to put some pitch in that area to keep it from ponding.

As others have posted (and you already know) concrete, or block grouted solid is the only sure way to go.

 

Thanks Jim.

You've been a wealth of knowledge for me lately.

I decided to use my big ol' brain and go talk to a Landscape Architect upstairs. (I work for a Civil Engineering outfit)

He has re-interated what you just said.

Good drainage (I have a small gravel stockpile, silt fence fabric & draintile all here at the house), stable ground (clay), it should work.

Of course a concrete block, or stone mortared wall would be best, but it's not in the budget.

Maybe I'll rebuild it bigtime in a few years when I do the big pole barn.

But for now, his opinion:

( Overall dimensions are very close to yours Jim.)

Compacted gravel footer, 8-12" in depth. He said one key to dry laid walls that are non-free standing like mine, meaning earth is built up on one side, is to canter the footer 1" higher in the front, for every vertical 1' in wall height.

So the footer would be 3" higher in front for my 3' tall wall.

This with good compaction in the footer, good stacking, proper placement of rocks to over lap joints, and good tamping in the back, he felt that the wall may even be well strong enough to last permanently, meaning no new wall when I do the pole barn.

I'm not one to rush, I am convinced I can get it done right if I take my time.

I'll have a laser level for grading, and am renting a compactor and small hoe to dig out the footing.

Looks like it will work well.

I'll post a few pics as I make progress over the weekend.

Many thanks,

Blair

 

Doh! You have a ringer.....
Yes, this helps keep the stones from sliding off one another and /or overturning. Just watch your ****** and keep the head joints from lining up. If it's anything like most blastrock around here it will be sharp and easier to lay up tight. You didn't say what type of rock it is: granite, sandstone....
Sounds like you have the right advice, from a professional.

Good luck w/ your project, watch your back and toes.

-----------
Jim

 

Blair, the system I am talking about is a small scale version of the temporary retaining wall they construct when digging out the basement for a high rise building.
Basically just to keep debris from falling in the hole.

Being a max height of 3' this system would work fine for your application.

I'll see if I can find a pic somewhere

 

Jim,

Not sure what type of rock it is. It's the typical blue stone in the ground local to our area, the Piedmont area of Virginia. We are east of the Shenandoah Valley.

I tried chipping it with a hammer, and it didnt' split very easy like shale would I think.

Gonna run by the site and see how it does under a sledge.

Thanks Dennis, I'd like to visualize what you are talking about.

Blair

 

Here ....I threw this together in a couple of minutes so you get the idea.



Top View

The ends can be made of channel inside of I-Beam for a smooth finish

 

Hi Blair,

Dennis is talking about Shoring like you'd see in a sewer trench excavation.

Yes, I know where Culpepper is, but I never looked at the stone there. I used to fly rockets down that way, oh 15 years ago, so I was always looking at the sky.

If there's no cleft it sounds like granite and likely very good wall stone.
Don't you have a large lumber treatment plant around there?

Wishing you good weather and a productive weekend!

 

Thanks for the pics Dennis.

Have to think about it.

Jim,

Yep, we have a large wood preservers here. No public sales though.

Going to take a good look at the stone tomorrow, make sure it's not clefted. <sp?

This afternoon was mild, so I'm hoping for good weather.

Blair

 

Ended up getting a small load of stone from the jobsite I work on (with permission) but decided after the first load it was too much trouble due to the soft ground, and the mess my 33's were making of the area.

I took my 79' F150 due to the soft ground around the excavation, and ended up making a royal mess in the street when I pulled out.

I went and dumped the stone, came back and shoveled the street clean.

When I was headed out the 2nd time, the super told me across the main drag, next to the new Target, the new road they are building has lots of stone debris.

I drove over there, went in the construction office on site, got a "take what ya want".

So I went and took a peek. I promptly loaded about 15 stones, then went home to get the F350 and trailer.

Loaded up two more loads of BIG stone, most pushing 150-200 pounds. Some probably more.

I still need to get the footing done and start working on it in earnest.

My wife works alot, so Sunday evening and Monday (I was off and she was too) were spent together.

My wall project is very important to me as it is a precurser to the garage being up, but time with her is never dull nad time well spent IMHO.

Besides, how many wifes put on intakes for their husbands 352's?

Or brakes on the Jeep?

Anyway, didn't get done what I wanted, but got a couple good loads of heavy stone.

Will post pics of the progess as it happens.

Thanks

Blair

 

Does she have a sister???
You are a very fortunate man.