engine coolant and air temp sensors...hmm, do they inhibit spark if bad?

 

Well Joe, I'm getting to the end of my knowledge. The codes you got are the result of the truck being cold while you tested it. All I can tell you now is what I would do if it were my truck. First, PM subford, Bill, and ask for help. Second, if the truck is not your dailey driver and you can afford to let it sit awhile, be patient. Wait till Bill or someone more knowledgeable jumps in. If I absolutely had to get it going, I would pull and test the TFI module on the side of the distributor. Unplug, remove the two screws, and push down slightly to get the connections you can't see out of the distributor. If you pull this modul, you need a small tube of thermal grease to reinstal it. It gets a thin even coat to help it transfer internal heat to the body of the distributor. Failure to clean and apply the thermal grease will give a premature failure of the module. My auto parts store looked at me like I ask for tail light oil when I ask for thermal grease, then they tried to sell me a grease gun tube of hi temp grease. The computer repair place had a tiny tube of it for $3.
Sorry I can't help more.
Good luck Frank

 

Running a jumper from the battery to the coil will NOT produce spark. Well, maybe ONE spark, IF the rotor in the dizzy happens to be pointed at a post. The reason the fuel pump came on is you back-fed the EEC Power On signal by connecting to the coil. That in turn, ran the POST (Power On Self Test) which told the fuel pump to run, and charge the fuel rail.

Without ANY jumpers, hook your test light to the side of the coil going to the TFI (forget the wire color, but think it's a Tan wire with green tracer), or ICM, whichever you want to call it. It's the same thing, and Ford can't even decide what to call it. It's called ICM on my 'Bird, and TFI on my truck. They carry EXACTLY the same part number despite the engine differences. Thick Film Ignition is probably the most common name, but Ignition Control Module is interchangeable. Crank on the truck to see if the light blinks. If no blink, no PIP signal. PIP is Proximity Inductive Pickup (don't quote me), which is inside the dizzy. If that's bad, go get yourself a new dizzy unless you've eaten your Wheaties, and want to rebuild your own. Another way to check for spark is to pull the coil wire at the distributor end, and put a spark plug in it, and ground the spark plug's body on something. Be careful with this, because if you don't get a good ground and you touch that plug, you're gonna wind up with inverted dents in your hood from the back of your head. If you see spark, the TFI, PIP, and coil are all working.

Now, as cold as it was, may I suggest checking the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). On a fuel injection system, it does NOTHING to pump the throttle if the engine isn't running, other than wag the throttle plates. That said, if the TPS failed shorted, and is indicating WOT (Wide Open Throttle) to the EEC, then the EEC will not permit the fuel injectors to fire. This is for flooding mitigation, or perhaps was just a whiz bang test thrown in. Fuel Injection was the be-all end-all of pumping losses from carburetors, vapor lock, and sundry other problems associated with carbs. www.fordfuelinjection.com has some wonderful info for checking a TPS.

As the others said, the codes you posted are mostly due to running diagnostic on a cold engine. The EEC doesn't like a cold engine, and MANY people have gone on sensor replacing rampages because they checked a cold engine. Let's get past the spark or no-spark verdict, then, we'll move on to sensors.

 

Frank - "Old_Paint" Thanks for the info. I have already checked with a kd tools standard ignition tester for spark on the coil lead disconnected at the dizzy. This is not an HEI tester, but I assume I would get a spark nonetheless. ( http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Au...lfetch&cm_ite= ) Simple spark plug with a clip welded onto the side of it. I did try a coil yesterday, ( it's 4am now) as I have one and it made no difference. Today I will check with the light on the lead to/from the dizzy ICM and let oyu know what I find. I also picked up an ICM and a pick upfor the dizzy today. The ICM came with dielectric. Hopefully tomorrow I can report some positive news. Thanks for the excellent help folks- Joe

 

Hopefully you'll get a break from the icy weather.

Keep us posted. Glad you found there was no spark, well at least you identified the no-start condition. Now to find out WHY no spark.

Installation of the PIP will require pulling the dizzy and and then disassembly. A press will be handy, but it can be done with a brass drift and a puller if you're careful. It fits around the shaft, below the vanes, which are machined as part of the shaft. This means the shaft comes out before the PIP does. If you're handy with cars, it shouldn't be a problem. Judging from your posts, you're not new to automobiles, just Ford EFI/TFI systems.

If the PIP is bad, then the fuel injectors will not fire, and you'll have no spark, I.E., no fuel OR spark to the cylinders. There's good ones and bad ones, just like anything else I guess. I've been running the original for 15+ years in my truck, and it's only had ONE cap/rotor set put on it since I've had it. I replaced it at 130,000 miles, chasing other problems. I think I'd have to call the PIP in my dizzy a good one. For that matter, I'd have to call my whole truck a good one. It was 130,000 before the first problems started showing up. I went 13 years on this thing just feeding it, and religiously changing oil in it. Just the general maintenance stuff, but made sure that was done regularly. I can't complain.

 

work got the best of me yesterday and today...so maybe, jus tmaybe I will have time to look tomorrow. I did just go out in the dark and put the test light on the lead from the coil to the dizzy. I wasn;t sure which lead and the flashlight was a bit dim, so I did both. One, I believe the lightest in color and the closer to the front of the truck, kept the test light steady on with the ignition on and /or cranking. The other did nothing in any state. I am assuming the pip is the issue from what you have said. Any point in trying the ICM/ECM ya think? Thanks agian- Joe btw, i am an old vw fan, i have had several. the 69 carmen ghia was my favorite, followed by the 63 bug.

 

Have you installed the new ignition module? If so, then kind of looking like the pip or the distributor.

When I went thru an intermittent no spark problem, I finally pulled the distributor, and discovered the bearings were bad. The distributor was a rebuilt one and less than 6 months old. GRRRR This was after changing the module, cap, coil, and ignition switch. At least yours is easier to trouble shoot. Intermittent stuff sucks big time. Everytime I changed a part it ran fine, for awhile. LOL
Good luck Frank

 

Cool, I had a '63 beetle when I was in high school. 6 volt system, though, I roll started it more than I cranked it with the starter.

If that test light isn't blinking, my guess would be the pip, albeit, it could still be the TFI/ICM. The TFI is ultimately what switches the coil ground to produce the pulses for spark, but it's only an amplified and shaped signal from the PIP. If you want to replace the PIP, you're gonna pull the dizzy. Even with the dizzy mounted TFI, you can change it without pulling the dizzy. Up to you, but if you already have the TFI, I think I'd try that before pulling that distributor. It ain't hard to pull out, but getting it back in without being a tooth or two off is a bit of a pain.

Sounds like you're getting closer.

 

hi, I just kind of scanned the posts, maybe this'll help
No Spark Condition:

1. Loosen distributor holding bolt with ½" wrench, remove plug from coil, turn ign on, while holding the coil plug ~ ¼" away from the coil tower, rotate distributor left-right-left....if spark doesn't arc from coil to plug…goto 2...if spark arcs from coil to plug…check condition of distributor rotor and cap, replace and recheck.

2. Place ignition key in on, with the 12-vdc test light connected to a good ground, probe the (+) terminal at the coil (Red/Lt Green wire)...if test light is off ….the ignition switch or 20 GA fuse link might be the problem, need to trace power wire....if test light is on…goto 3.

3. Place ignition key in on, with the 12-vdc test light connected to a good ground, probe the (-) terminal at the coil (Tan/Yellow wire)...if test light is off….replace coil and recheck….if test light is on….goto 4.

4. Place ignition key in on, with the 12-vdc test light connected to a good ground, probe the (-) terminal at the coil (Tan/Yellow wire), rotate distributor left-right-left and check test light, if test light blinks….replace coil....if test light does not blink…goto 5.

NOTE: Rotating the distributor with the ign on, generates a PIP pulse, this will also activate the fuel pump relay and pulse injectors (system assumes startup logic).

5. Ign On, backprobe or disconnect TFI module, and check with test light, pin #4 (ICM Power)…if test light is on….goto 6…..if test light is off….TFI Ign On wire has an open that needs tracing and repair.

 

ignition module.....once it warms up it shorts out inside the module.....common failure part....

 

I know this is an extremely slow response,but for searchers I wanted to note that in the end the issue was the distributor, likely the pick-up if I recall.