cheaper ethanol
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
cheaper ethanol
http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2008/01/ethanol23
Is this too good to be true or is it just what we are looking for?
Is this too good to be true or is it just what we are looking for?
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,473
Likes: 4
From: Lafayette, IN
Interesting idea, but I don't like the comment about 2 bales of hay turning into 5 gallons of ethanol for $5. Hay usually costs more than that...if not because you are buying from someone else, then because of what you could be growing in place of it.
Otherwise, if it can do what the guy claims, it could be a good thing. Time will tell.
Jason
Otherwise, if it can do what the guy claims, it could be a good thing. Time will tell.
Jason
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,517
Likes: 3
From: SE Wyoming
Everyone seems to forget, not realize or just not care about how much water it takes to first grow anything that could make ethanol and then the water it takes in the process to refine it. Of all the things on Earth I do not want to see wasted and that we need to live water is #1. For corn based ethanol it takes something like 3 gallons of water to just refine 1 gallon of ethanol, that does not take into account all the water it takes to grow corn.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,110
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that would be salt water. the point is to save energy. makes no since spending more energy then what you get out of it. plus the logistics alone to transport desalinated water to the heartland would be expensive and complicated.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 726
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Hey, I just thought of something!!!!!
If we (the U. S.) worked HALF as hard finding and developing our own petroleum resources (and not just those sources drilled from under the ground) we could become an oil AND ethanol EXPORTER (and have reasonable prices here at home).
Wow, did I think of this all by myself?
Wow, did I think of this all by myself?
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Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 1
From: sunny fla sometimes windy
The U.S. has more oil than the entire mid east!! We need to stop messing with this
ethanol with the subsidies and all that and get to unlocking all the oil that is trapped
in the shale!! Germany ran it's war effort on SYNTHETIC gasoline made from COAL
we also have lots of coal that could be used to take our reliance from foreign oil
a thing of the past. Most coal plants a run on coal gasification so already the infra
structure is there to just be added to to bump up production. We should be making
ethanol from HEMP it grows fast it produces oil and it can be fermented to make
ethanol then can be burnt to make steam power, Three forms of fuel from one plant
but ohh noo it is drugs!! George Washington grew hemp as well as many others in
that time if it wasn't for big oil seeing that it was a competitor and having legislation
to make it illegal all this could be a moot point. There are still places were it grows
wild from these original plantations, Vermont for one, Turnbull in Florida had many
hemp fields. Of course it is a BIG BIG NO NO to even mention hemp (it's a drug!!) they
look at you like your some kind of hippy freak to even think of it!! And NO I don't
smoke it I just can see that it is a highly renewable resource that could help us out!!
ethanol with the subsidies and all that and get to unlocking all the oil that is trapped
in the shale!! Germany ran it's war effort on SYNTHETIC gasoline made from COAL
we also have lots of coal that could be used to take our reliance from foreign oil
a thing of the past. Most coal plants a run on coal gasification so already the infra
structure is there to just be added to to bump up production. We should be making
ethanol from HEMP it grows fast it produces oil and it can be fermented to make
ethanol then can be burnt to make steam power, Three forms of fuel from one plant
but ohh noo it is drugs!! George Washington grew hemp as well as many others in
that time if it wasn't for big oil seeing that it was a competitor and having legislation
to make it illegal all this could be a moot point. There are still places were it grows
wild from these original plantations, Vermont for one, Turnbull in Florida had many
hemp fields. Of course it is a BIG BIG NO NO to even mention hemp (it's a drug!!) they
look at you like your some kind of hippy freak to even think of it!! And NO I don't
smoke it I just can see that it is a highly renewable resource that could help us out!!
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,513
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From: La Tech University, La
blue, ya know why we dont tap the oil resources we have?
We have a rough idea of how long the middle east will have oil left in the ground. After them, we have some of the worlds largest oil deposits, and are set to start pumping at a moments notice, so guess what will happen when they run out of oil? The worlds biggest super power will then control the vast majority of the worlds most needed resource, especially needed by military, so guess who wins then.
We have a rough idea of how long the middle east will have oil left in the ground. After them, we have some of the worlds largest oil deposits, and are set to start pumping at a moments notice, so guess what will happen when they run out of oil? The worlds biggest super power will then control the vast majority of the worlds most needed resource, especially needed by military, so guess who wins then.
Gone but not forgotten.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 6,521
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by Jimmy Dean
blue, ya know why we dont tap the oil resources we have?
We have a rough idea of how long the middle east will have oil left in the ground. After them, we have some of the worlds largest oil deposits, and are set to start pumping at a moments notice, so guess what will happen when they run out of oil? The worlds biggest super power will then control the vast majority of the worlds most needed resource, especially needed by military, so guess who wins then.
We have a rough idea of how long the middle east will have oil left in the ground. After them, we have some of the worlds largest oil deposits, and are set to start pumping at a moments notice, so guess what will happen when they run out of oil? The worlds biggest super power will then control the vast majority of the worlds most needed resource, especially needed by military, so guess who wins then.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
Synthetic distillate fuel (diesel, jet, heating oil) can be cheaply made from natural gas. That is a lot cleaner than using coal. The problem with coal is the excess carbon, which becomes CO2 as a byproduct of the conversion process, IF you beleive the whole global warming thing, which I dont. That is the political reality right now.
Ethanol is getting the attention because the lobbyists from Archer Daniels Midland are a lot more influential than those of the energy industries (gas, oil and coal). Ethanol is heavily backed by GM because of the CAFE exemption given to E85 vehicles, due to ADM influence on Washington.
Jim
Ethanol is getting the attention because the lobbyists from Archer Daniels Midland are a lot more influential than those of the energy industries (gas, oil and coal). Ethanol is heavily backed by GM because of the CAFE exemption given to E85 vehicles, due to ADM influence on Washington.
Jim
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Merrill, WI
Another problem with coal is that it releases mercury into the atmosphere when burned. Plus other heavy metals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Coal_burning
Just thought I'd throw that in here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#Coal_burning
Just thought I'd throw that in here.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 1
From: sunny fla sometimes windy
I most definately do not believe that a constituent that is less than 1% of a total sum
can cause the changes that they have outlined!! The atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen
21% Oxygen and that happens to add up to 99 So that leaves 1% For every other
gas you have ever heard of Co2 Co argon neon helium(which is radioactive for those
who didn't know) Of course in old Gores movie the real inconveniant TRUTH is this fact
that he leaves out of the discussion completely since any rational thinking man has a
hard time believing that a less than 1% can really change anything. Make up your own
mind look up hard facts. The earth and the entire cosmos waxes and wanes just like
the tide up then down sometimes extreme low sometimes extreme high. The moon is
drifting away and the sun is getting smaller, And for some reason it was put at the perfect distance to only show the suns corona in an eclipse!!
can cause the changes that they have outlined!! The atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen
21% Oxygen and that happens to add up to 99 So that leaves 1% For every other
gas you have ever heard of Co2 Co argon neon helium(which is radioactive for those
who didn't know) Of course in old Gores movie the real inconveniant TRUTH is this fact
that he leaves out of the discussion completely since any rational thinking man has a
hard time believing that a less than 1% can really change anything. Make up your own
mind look up hard facts. The earth and the entire cosmos waxes and wanes just like
the tide up then down sometimes extreme low sometimes extreme high. The moon is
drifting away and the sun is getting smaller, And for some reason it was put at the perfect distance to only show the suns corona in an eclipse!!
Thread Starter
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 28,609
Likes: 18
From: Lake Tahoe, Nevada
In chemistry and biology, catalysis is the acceleration (increase in rate) of a chemical reaction by means of a substance called a catalyst, which is itself not consumed by the overall reaction. More generally, one may at times call anything that accelerates a process, a "catalyst"
You really think 1% can't change anything?
Also, are your numbers reliable? What about Ozone and carbon dioxide?
You really think 1% can't change anything?
Also, are your numbers reliable? What about Ozone and carbon dioxide?
Last edited by Bdox; Jan 30, 2008 at 09:45 AM.