400 in 1972 F100

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  #46  
Old 01-28-2008, 09:59 PM
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Havi has the point exactly the big advantage to the 400 is the fact they are a dime a dozen, same reason I suggest people use the D3VE heads instead of wasting time with the DOVE heads unless you have them. Everyone thinks the early heads are gold and make more power but truth is the flow rates and combustion chamber efficiency is the same and will support the same power levels so don't spend the money to change them. In the case of the 400, it's rarely worth the effort to swap one in (exception is of coarse if you have a 351M) as it has all the downsides of a big block (physical size, weight, economy etc) without having the advantage of sheer CID. But if you have one in the truck and with the improvements in the aftermarket then it can make decent power and worth building, but if you have a small block truck and you are swapping and having to change everything like trans and accessories anyway it's really not worth it vs just going ahead and gaining the increased torque and power of using a 460.
If your looking for all out power for racing etc, trying to do it with a 400 is foolish (not many really are doing that but for those that are) once again you have the weight of a big block but limited cid capacity and power capacity due to the limits on heads, a max effort 400 can push 600-700hp where as a stroker 460 with factory iron passenger car heads running pump gas can see the same numbers and start getting into race heads like the A and C heads and 900hp is not that hard to obtain, plus if you want to get really nuts aftermarket blocks are available for the 460 based engines in both iron and alum as well as tall deck and increased bore center versions capable of over 800cid.
but honestly if I bought a truck with a 400 in it as a driver anymore I would just build the 400 and use that... Yes I said even I would leave it in the truck unless I was building a race vehicle or had some other reason to replace it like a windowed block.
 

Last edited by monsterbaby; 01-28-2008 at 10:02 PM.
  #47  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:20 PM
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There's a lot of reasons i just kept with the 400 in my truck. For one, i didnt have to go looking for another engine, and adapt it in. Just rebuilding the 400 was hard enough work, as opposed to building a 460 and shoe horning it in. Plus...460s arent all that easy to come by anymore. A lot of the ford folks have the whole "460 or nothing at all" attitude for some reason, so around here at least, they're pretty hard to find. However, i know of about 10 351ms or 400s i could go grab if i wanted to, probably for less than a hundred bucks. I went to a junkyard once and got a np435 trans from a 351m or 400 truck, and as i was loading it up the owner came by and asked me "Hey...is that bellhousing the same as the 460 one?" i told him yeah, and his eyes lite up like he just found gold. "Oh no...you aint taking that with you then!" he tells me and takes it off the trans. I dont know what it is, but 460 stuff is the best, no questions asked in a lot of ford people's mind.

If you cant tell, i'm not a huge ford guy, i like them, but i have another preference. I built up my 400, and lots of people would tell me i was wasting my time because it would never out performe a 460, and i just say to them... "uh...so what?". It's what came with the truck, it's what i got to work with, and i'm happy with it. I'm not out there trying to drag race 460s in my truck. For another, it's a strictly off-road truck, and the 400 actually has more power than i can really use anways. In off-roading its your drivetrain and axles that make or break you, having a powerful engine is nice but it isnt the biggest factor.

I cant stand how everyone always says the 400 was a dog. Yeah...so was every other engine that came from the factory from that era, you never hear them say that about the 400 chevy, or other low comp engines from that time, even though they were just as lackluster as the 400 ford was. Even a lot of the allmighty 460s were nothing to shout about in stock form.
 
  #48  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:25 PM
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actually even most chevy guys don't like the 400 chev, it really doesn't have many redeeming qualities except to use the crankshaft to build a stroker motor out of a 350
 
  #49  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by monsterbaby
actually even most chevy guys don't like the 400 chev, it really doesn't have many redeeming qualities except to use the crankshaft to build a stroker motor out of a 350
Lots of chevy guys i know love the 400, especially the f-body people...
 
  #50  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:52 PM
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definitely different part of the country, I don't know a single person that hasn't either destroked the 400, or used to the crank to make a 383, not one. The only 400s in chevs still in vehicls I do know about are both sitting in a field with cracked heads and haven't run for years. And NON of the local circle track guys will even consider them.
 
  #51  
Old 01-28-2008, 11:57 PM
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Guess its something in the air up here in colorado..lol.. My girlfriend has a 67 chevy c-10 with a small chevy 400 in it. She does have about $5000 into her engine, but it does pretty well and pushes the truck to a 12.7 et at bout 103 MPH here (that would be approx 11.95 ET and 108.8 MPH at sea level using NHRA altitude correction factors. Thats in her 4000 pound truck.

In my 5860 pound truck, my ford 400 will get it to 14.32 in the 1/4 at about 93? 92? MPH (13.46 @ about 99 MPH at sea level). I have about $1200 into mine, and $800 of that was labor on the block crank, valves, and assembly.

I know math and numbers lie, but using the weight / 1/4 mile ET / MPH :

Her $5000 chevy 400 should be about 432.68 HP at the crank.

My $1200 ford 400 should be about 462.93 HP at the crank.

Every engine has its potential, there is a HUGE aftermarket for the 385 series ford engine, the 335 series parts are very limited, and what there is is either expensive, or not practical for street use (IE: 13:1 CR pistons)

Kind of off topic, but somewhat related, i went to a local junkyard today, and last saturday...In the yard was a 40's buick or olds that someone had started to swap a ford 400 / C6 combo into..
 
  #52  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:00 AM
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The number of 406 smallblock chevy engines that run at bandimere (local dragstrip) is overwhelming.... Most of them in trucks are running 12 or 13 second passes, and the cars are running 10 and 11 second passes.

Different parts of the country definently have different taste in mills... What works here may not work on the coast... lol
 
  #53  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Colo79Ford
The number of 406 smallblock chevy engines that run at bandimere (local dragstrip) is overwhelming.... Most of them in trucks are running 12 or 13 second passes, and the cars are running 10 and 11 second passes.

Different parts of the country definently have different taste in mills... What works here may not work on the coast... lol
Yeah that reminds me, pretty much all the guys at the local circle track run 406 chevys.
 
  #54  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:19 AM
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around here the big engine that all the circle track guys run is the 383 strokers, I know one of the guys that works for JR motorsports that builds probably 60% of the local circle burner engines and he says they build 5 to 1 383s over all other chev engines combined. I will have to ask him about how many 400 they put out, but like I said non of the guys I know run them around here. Same thing with the car drag guys, almost all 350 for those guys with a spattering of 383s one 377 (closest thing to a 400 around) a few 327s and one screaming 302 chev (that is all the chev guys). As to the mud guys they either run 350s 383s or go big like the 502 chev.

As to the ford guys in the mud I do know several that have 400s but all run stock class and are happy if htey can place in the top 3 at any given race. I tried running a 351C and a 302C in mine in modified was lucky to not be eliminated immediatly even with over 500hp. In superstock a 460hp engine like mentioned above will get you to place about 50% of the time (may even get a win on a good night) modified class takes 600+hp to even think about placing (my 900+hp only will get me to place consistantly ) and the outlaw class that I also run in don't even bother showing up with less then 800hp with or without nitrous.

But I am serious there really isn't any 400s basically of any breed that are used much around here for much of anything that I know of. Oh wait I take that back there is one guy running a 400 pontiac in an old lemans, and the really cool one is close to a 400 as there is one guy running an old restored 409 powered Biscayne which is just cool in anyones book to see them old hot rods restored
 

Last edited by monsterbaby; 01-29-2008 at 09:25 AM.
  #55  
Old 01-29-2008, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by monsterbaby
around here the big engine that all the circle track guys run is the 383 strokers, I know one of the guys that works for JR motorsports that builds probably 60% of the local circle burner engines and he says they build 5 to 1 383s over all other chev engines combined. I will have to ask him about how many 400 they put out, but like I said non of the guys I know run them around here. Same thing with the car drag guys, almost all 350 for those guys with a spattering of 383s one 377 (closest thing to a 400 around) a few 327s and one screaming 302 chev (that is all the chev guys). As to the mud guys they either run 350s 383s or go big like the 502 chev.

As to the ford guys in the mud I do know several that have 400s but all run stock class and are happy if htey can place in the top 3 at any given race. I tried running a 351C and a 302C in mine in modified was lucky to not be eliminated immediatly even with over 500hp. In superstock a 460hp engine like mentioned above will get you to place about 50% of the time (may even get a win on a good night) modified class takes 600+hp to even think about placing (my 900+hp only will get me to place consistantly ) and the outlaw class that I also run in don't even bother showing up with less then 800hp with or without nitrous.

But I am serious there really isn't any 400s basically of any breed that are used much around here for much of anything that I know of. Oh wait I take that back there is one guy running a 400 pontiac in an old lemans, and the really cool one is close to a 400 as there is one guy running an old restored 409 powered Biscayne which is just cool in anyones book to see them old hot rods restored
So none of the Ford guys are running FE's? No 390's, 410's, 427's, or 428's? Around here you see more of them than you do 460's!
 
  #56  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:42 PM
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locally a Chevy 406 in a 67 blue camaro ran 10 secs on the track and its said to make 9 secs....I think theres a link on youtube where he even did a wheelie, gota look into it, id go with the 400 cheaper to build perfomance....
 
  #57  
Old 01-29-2008, 12:45 PM
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fomo actually very few FE's and that actually suprises me if you want the truth, there is one really nicely done highboy that runs a decent 390 and one over west of me that is running a healthy 428cj but in the top 2 classes the only thing running is stroker versions of the 460 anymore, at least for the fords.

As to the pavement drags, the usual assortment of new stuff of coarse and I know there is some older mustangs several of them with FE's and assorted other engines (including one original Boss 9 showing up one day) and I know of several 351C cars including a mustang II with one in it. as to the circle track guys only like one ford at all.
 
  #58  
Old 01-29-2008, 07:47 PM
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Ditto on the FE's... They seem to be a dying breed. It takes an artist and lots of patience to put together the vast amount of interchangeable parts in the FE family, and the parts are not turning up often in the yards... Especially any performance parts...

And the 460 being a dog, yeah, I have never been too happy with mine, even though it burns no oil and I suspect it has been rebuilt at least once... For a little better gas milage and actually able to squeal the tires with stock 2V 351M, I was always pretty satisfied with my '78. No idea why the 460 '76 seems so boring. Compression was around 150 psi all cylinders, too, and 4V Edelbrock, straight up timing (that I put in; and found it already had one installed!)
Could be a mystery for a while...
 
  #59  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:03 PM
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Alot of FE guys up in my area too...lol.. Like i said, must be something in the air here that people run what others wont.
 
  #60  
Old 01-29-2008, 08:36 PM
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Colo could be that I live in the rust belt too, and a lot of the older stuff has rusted away.
 
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