So I went today and picked up the 460 and trans. Unfortunately is does have the D2VE heads, so I will be looking for a good set from another year; probably 73-up just because of cost. So far everything looks real solid. It's greasy and crusty, but the insides are pretty clean and the cylinders look real good with an almost non existant ridge. The heads look pretty good too. It's a shame they are what they are. It was all taken from a running 72 Lincoln, and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. As for the trans, even if it is good I'm considering buying a kit and a book and going through it myself. This would be a first for me, and I am very interested in seeing what it entails.

As for the motor, all I really want to do is freshen it up, put a cam in it (possibly a Comp Cams 268H), aftermarket timing set, intake, and headers (and the newer heads). If I was closing in on 300hp I'd be happy. Does that sound realistic to you? Factory hp is 215-220 with manifolds, crap cam, and 4 degree retard...

 

If I were you, I would locate the nearest Pick N Pull yard and find some D3VE heads. You might even find some C8-C9VE's or some D0VE C's if you are really lucky. You can pay a small fee for online info to smooth out the exhaust ports in these heads yourself at http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/BBFindex.html
You still might wanna invest in some good pistons though...

 

I think thats gonna be what I do. Over at 460ford.com they've got all sorts of useful info on porting and such. I have a feeling I'll be spending quite a bit of time there.

 

Stock 460 heads do not flow as good as stock 351C-2V heads, so you will need to do some porting on the 460 heads just to get even. There is no replacement for displacement however, and at low RPM the larger cube motor will pull harder if all else is equal.

 

Yeah, from what I understand what you have to do to make big power is fit 1.75 exh valves and port the exhaust side, smoothing out the sharp corner and grinding down the thermactor. I saw a recipe for 400hp that calls for 9.0:1- 9.5:1 cr, mild cam, aftermarket timing set, 4brl, intake, headers, and the head work. If I can make that kind of power just doing these things I'll be thrilled.

 

You can get that kind of Horsepower from a 400 with the same amount of work or less. It is only the torque at low RPM, where the larger displacement motor is better.

 

your going to reach 1:1 hp to displacement with less work then he described? not likely, dang few 400s will ever reach over 300hp at best let alone with minimal mods as described by the above post and you of all people should know it. The 400 is lucky to see it with stock heads at all, the 2v heads do NOT flow better then standard passenger car big block stuff, and at best a 400 is a nice compromise for people that have one and can't get access to any other engine, you have less cid, and an engine that is every bit as big and contrary to the BS proposed by those that try to tout how great they are the difference in weight is about equal to what a cast iron intake manifold weighs. and those that are truly looking for hp with a 400 then finally make the jump will atest they will NEVER go back (may I remind all those of the hero of this section shazam and his opinion of the 400 now that he has switched to a big block and that is he is sorry he wasted his time and would never consider trying to do that again)

It's not been that many years ago that a 1:1 ration was considered wild power for a street rod, and to say you can achieve it with basic no mods on a 400 is fooling yourself and everyone else and leading many down a wrong path. truth is most that THINK they have 400hp probably are looking at 250-300 (which is double stock anyway so seems like a lot) I would like to see a quarter of those engines put on a dyno and dispell that little story in a heart beat

Now with all that being said I don't come in here and hammer on the 400 very often until I see stuff like this that is patently untrue posted. Yes you can get a 400 to produce some good numbers (you guys better go over to the mustang forum and thank them though cause without the cleveland that many on this board dispise you wouldn't have squat for an aftermarket you only have what is cross over parts honestly) But to claim that minor mods like that will achieve amazing results just leaves people with a bad taste in their mouth when they get to realize how wrong it is.

And then the really funny part os the above post by Danlee and I quote "It is only the torque at low RPM, where the larger displacement motor is better." hey isn't that the one line everyone touting the 400 claim to be why it's so superiour over all the rest due to it's massive stroke it out torques all other engines? Oh yeah, it's been proven a thousand times on as many different dyno's that it's bogus that the 4" stroke will improve torque, that it's the CID that does it not the stroke. take a 390 bore it and do exactly the same things to it you do to a 400 and the FE will out pull it everytime on any dyno. These are the reasons that Dan used the 400 and the fact he was cid limited (although could have used a 429) but when he found out and saw the light he won't come back gee and this is the best that has ever been done with one of these engines.

 

For me, I figured not only will I be able to make big power affordably with the 460, but it will also bring the value of my truck up. A nice short bed F100 with a 460 is just more desirable to the market if I decide to sell it in a few years. I was a little afraid that if I put a 400 in it most people would just ask "why?" Plus, I am looking at the fact that a lot of the parts I pick up will be nice used stuff on ebay and at swap meets, and there's just a lot more 460 stuff out there. Plus I've always wanted one!

 

Not too often you see a moderator having to resort to being an ******* and singling out users on this forum...Psychiatrist cancel this weeks session?


Also "If you can't shove a big block in it, then why bother having it." Not making a suggestion, but i sit on mine, maybe you should shove a big block in yours. If a big block can get a 5800 pound truck up and going so fast, i cant wait to see what one can do for you!!

 

I did this once before for someone from the 385 series group, but here it is again.

I simulated a 460 motor with stock D0VE heads. I used published flow data for those heads. I used 10:1 CR, a dual plane standard flow manifold, a 650 cfm carb, large tube headers with mufflers, and a 34-250-4 cam (Comp XE284).

I got 460ft-lbs torque@2000 RPM, and peak torque of 481@3500 RPM. The peak HP is 370@4500 RPM.

The torque is impressive, but it doesn't make 400 HP. A high flow single plane intake and some head work would bring the HP over 400.

I did the same simulation with a 400 motor with stock 351C-2V heads. I used published flow data for those heads. I used 10:1 CR, a dual plane standard flow manifold, a 650 cfm carb, large tube headers with mufflers, and a 32-250-4 cam (Comp XE284).

I got 393ft-lbs torque@2000 RPM, and peak torque of 431@4000 RPM. The peak HP is 373@5000 RPM.

This doesn't make the torque of the 460, but the torque curve is wider and the peak is at a higher RPM. That is due to the better exhaust flow of the Cleveland head. It doesn't make 400 HP, either, but a high flow manifold and a little head work will bring this over 400 HP.

Horsepower is equal to torque x RPM/5200. So at 5200 RPM HP = torque. To get a 1:1 ratio of displacement to HP, I only need to get the torque curve to peak about 5200 RPM or higher. That requires air flow, not displacement. A 351C with 4V heads will easily make a 1:1 ratio, but it's much harder for a motor that has it's exhaust port all choked up.

 

Colo sorry you hurt so bad when truth is shown to you, and your post is very definitely pushing the rules with first hitting the language filters and second making suggestions like you did. I am not a mod in this section so can't and wouldn't anyway but you really need to be careful before someone else does.
Next I may be a moderator as you noticed but that does not preclude me from publishing my opinion or in this case facts mixed with opinion even if you don't like it. So please get off the high horse, I just stated what has been shown to be actual facts not what DD2K puts out. Also please note Danlee and i have gone round before and don't resort to name calling like you did. That attitude is not acceptable, disagreements are. And in case you don't know I do actually know something about building engines, including 335 series engines, as some can and will atest too.

And speaking od DD2K danlee you know as well as anyone that it only publishes changes that it is not reliable in any shape or form, sure i can with very little tweaking and using real head flow numbers etc make a 400 produce 700hp on DD2K and about that for torque but we all know only one 400 I have ever heard of made that power (although it was pointed out to me that his engine was never ACTUALLY dynoed it was a guesstamate off of DD2K but I don't know that it was just second hand info that was PM'd to me) and that engine blew up almost immediatly (yes I know it was 800hp) now 800hp 460s are common and some even running pump gas and living on the street. DD2K is not proof it's speculation and the proof is in the pudding as the saying goes, and there are literly tens of thousands of dyno sheets floating around backing up every thing I have posted, and those are real dyno sheets not similations that are better for showing what a change will do not what the actual outcome of the engine is going to be. It's a known fact that DD2K is almost always way too high until you get into actual race engines that actually start approaching 100%VE the it tends to be massively low. It's a cute tool but really not very accurate and shouldn't be taken too seriously.

BTW the actual formula for hp is HP = (TQ x RPM)/5252

 

My simulation was with Dyno Sim, not DD2K, but that isn't important.
What is important is that it is a comparison tool, and I compared two similarly built motors, and one produced more HP with less cubic inches than the other.

The point of the simulation was not to prove how much power either motor could make, but that one of those motors is more restricted than the other.

 

I just want to point out that the 400 may have made 3 more horsepower, but the 460 made 50 more lbft of torque. I will glady trade 3 hp for 50 lbft of torque any day! Plus, I know that with some exhaust porting and 1.75 valves it would jump considerably.

All I know is that I'm excited about it, and I can't wait to get it rebuilt so I can have a rip snortin' 460 in my truck and ditch the tired 302!

 

I'll just say that since fomocoguy3's already got his 460, everything else is moot in this thread. feel free to drop off that 400 at my doorstep.

It's not everyday that you find a 460 and C6 for $250....especially from the 70's Lincolns. That is a lucky score. The general idea behind the 400 is that most people still look at them as dogs, and sell them for $50 or less.

 

The above is the statement that I made initially, and it is still valid.