Lower engine rattle w/startup
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,698
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From: Mexico, Missouri
Lower engine rattle w/startup
On my '92 300, I'm sure this has been beat to death, but I have kinda narrowed down my lower valve,engine noise down to (1) of several obvious conclusions:
When I use a heavier, thicker oil, i.e., 15-40, 20w-50, I don't have the "clink, clink, clink rapping noise" for 1-2 seconds when I startup, cold or hot. When I go to a thinner 5w-30, 10w-40 oil, I have the noise, unless it's deathly cold outside. Now with the truck @103,590 miles, I'm positive I have some wear, etc. but does anyone have this sound, that they have had tore into and found or come across the reason? Bent pushrod, worn valve guides, burnt valve...I'm prety sure it's engine related and not something like water pump, power steering pump, smog pump.
I've already changed oil pan and pump, so i'm ruling that out.
Any input for help down the road would help!
When I use a heavier, thicker oil, i.e., 15-40, 20w-50, I don't have the "clink, clink, clink rapping noise" for 1-2 seconds when I startup, cold or hot. When I go to a thinner 5w-30, 10w-40 oil, I have the noise, unless it's deathly cold outside. Now with the truck @103,590 miles, I'm positive I have some wear, etc. but does anyone have this sound, that they have had tore into and found or come across the reason? Bent pushrod, worn valve guides, burnt valve...I'm prety sure it's engine related and not something like water pump, power steering pump, smog pump.
I've already changed oil pan and pump, so i'm ruling that out.
Any input for help down the road would help!
Postmaster
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,241
Likes: 3
From: Broken Arrow, OK
The most common cause is using Fram filters. The anti drainback valve in them sucks and lets the filter empty itself while the truck sits. The need to refill the filter is what causes the noise. Once the filter is full and oil is delivered to the engine the noise stops. Most engines are OK with the Fram until they get a litle lifter wear, then the noise starts. There are other filters that do the same thing, but Fram is the most common. The Motorcraft filter is a little more expensive, but it will usually solve the problem.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2004
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Silver Streak is right, oil is draining out of the filter, and a different filter may help. As far as the wear, I had a 300 Six that did the same thing for over 200,000 miles before I sold it and never was into the engine. Just about every 300 Six I have seen does this to some extent (long oil passages in addition to the filter problem). Just find a filter that minimizes the noise, and don't wory about it.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Mexico, Missouri
Hey, thanks for the reply guys! I've been using a Motorcraft filter since day one so about 3 1/2 years now, FL-1A, so may also be lifter wear, it's been doing it for about 2 years now and I change my oil every 3 months, so I guess run'er till she crapps out.
I also saw a post on BITOG forum about a guy that used a pump from Northern Tool to go with his Amsoil bypass filter setup. I am thinking about the same setup but from the bottom of the oil pan to the oil passage used for the oil gauge sender. I have it tee'ed to a mech gauge to read actual pressure.
There is also a block plug on the passenger side of the block, allen head, orange, I think this is an oil passge but I'm not sure..Anybody else notice this?
Here is the link to the Post on the BITOG forum for what I was referring to.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...te_id/1#import
I also saw a post on BITOG forum about a guy that used a pump from Northern Tool to go with his Amsoil bypass filter setup. I am thinking about the same setup but from the bottom of the oil pan to the oil passage used for the oil gauge sender. I have it tee'ed to a mech gauge to read actual pressure.
There is also a block plug on the passenger side of the block, allen head, orange, I think this is an oil passge but I'm not sure..Anybody else notice this?
Here is the link to the Post on the BITOG forum for what I was referring to.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...te_id/1#import
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,860
Likes: 4
From: Metro Detroit (Redford)
Since you have a real oil pressure gauge, tell us what pressure you get with each grade of oil. What is cold pressure, hot at idle, hot at 2000 rpm?
Spec should be around 40-60 psi hot at 2000 rpm. I would guess that the thinner oils are not giving you sufficient OP.
Spec should be around 40-60 psi hot at 2000 rpm. I would guess that the thinner oils are not giving you sufficient OP.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Mexico, Missouri
Hey Guys,
Sorry about the delay in getting back to this post, been sick..With most of my driving now in the winter months, my cold oil pressure is 55, my hot, idle o.p. is 35-40, and my o.p. @ 2000 rpm is about 48-50. I couldn't say there is much change in my cold or 2000rpm o.p. except for the hot idle when using 15w-40 and 10w-30, and 5w-30.
15w-40 hold much better hot idle pressure, versus 10w, and 5w. With each drop in (W) i lose about 5 lbs of pressure @ hot idle.
Oscar may have a point though...I know my main bearing is making noise, which is a good guess..Love to have a garage so I could pull it and work on it when I have time. But if it is rod bearings, I have that low rumble sound from the lower part of the engineto the tranny when I am at 1st, very noticeable at 2nd and somewhat audible at 3rd. I know I have read somewhere in FTE how one can differentiate between the two, but can't remember.
Another question I want to ask about what I saw on BITOG Forum. Can I do the same setup except use my oil presure port to pressurize the system from the oil pan plug? The setup listed would cost a lot less in time and money compared with some of those other high priced option from other companies, and I can't think of who they are, but I have looked them up.
LEt me know what you think guys!
And thanks for everyone's input and time into the matter!
Sorry about the delay in getting back to this post, been sick..With most of my driving now in the winter months, my cold oil pressure is 55, my hot, idle o.p. is 35-40, and my o.p. @ 2000 rpm is about 48-50. I couldn't say there is much change in my cold or 2000rpm o.p. except for the hot idle when using 15w-40 and 10w-30, and 5w-30.
15w-40 hold much better hot idle pressure, versus 10w, and 5w. With each drop in (W) i lose about 5 lbs of pressure @ hot idle.
Oscar may have a point though...I know my main bearing is making noise, which is a good guess..Love to have a garage so I could pull it and work on it when I have time. But if it is rod bearings, I have that low rumble sound from the lower part of the engineto the tranny when I am at 1st, very noticeable at 2nd and somewhat audible at 3rd. I know I have read somewhere in FTE how one can differentiate between the two, but can't remember.
Another question I want to ask about what I saw on BITOG Forum. Can I do the same setup except use my oil presure port to pressurize the system from the oil pan plug? The setup listed would cost a lot less in time and money compared with some of those other high priced option from other companies, and I can't think of who they are, but I have looked them up.
LEt me know what you think guys!
And thanks for everyone's input and time into the matter!
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 289
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You can pressurize the system through the oil pressure sending unit, and it will certainally help the start-up noise problem and extend your engine life. You just have to come up with the hardware, and put together a practical system.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,698
Likes: 47
From: Mexico, Missouri
Thanks rswhitmore! I thought it was a good idea, but wanted some 'ol wise knowledge to go with it. It's cold and snowing here, but when I get around to it, I'll post back with how everything went together!