Big 300
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 95
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From: Belleville USA
Big 300
Wouldn't it be great if Ford would revive the 300 in a dual overhead cam version? Balance the motor, maybe even a supercharger? How much horsepower do you think this motor would put out? I think that in light of the recent GM offering in the Trail Blazer and Envoy, it would be great.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,860
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From: Metro Detroit (Redford)
Big 300
If they use the kind of technology used in the Ford mnodular OHC V8 engines, it ought to be a great engine. Better not use rubberband drive, but a chain drive camshafts like the V8s. Still, i like the old low rpm pushrod engine.
INLINE SIX POWER!
300 Cubic Inches of Low RPM Truck Torque! And twin-I-beams too!
INLINE SIX POWER!
300 Cubic Inches of Low RPM Truck Torque! And twin-I-beams too!
Cargo Master
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,208
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Big 300
The overhead cam engines is what is wrong with Ford trucks today. By design Overhead cam engines do not make torque like a push rod motor does. The only engine that Ford puts in a truck today that has any torque is the Diesel. The overhead cam engines have to wind up (RPms) to make any power. When you are trying to pull out with a heavy load those windy little motors just do not cut it. But Ford is run by Bean counters not Car people so they decided that one engine family was all they where going to build and those engines where all going to built on the same tooling as a result we have there modular motor in 6, 8 and 10 clyinder configs.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Big 300
I love the low in power of the big six push rod motor
I love to pull people out of mud holes. most of the time i idle out in low range and never have to spin a tire.
A ford truck with the big six (carb not injected) is like haveing a tractor and a truck in one.
I love to pull people out of mud holes. most of the time i idle out in low range and never have to spin a tire.
A ford truck with the big six (carb not injected) is like haveing a tractor and a truck in one.
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Belleville USA
Big 300
I may be wrong on this but I don't believe that the type of valving has anything to do with the amount of torque that a motor makes. I for sure know that Ford truck motors have more torque than anything in the truck market right now. They also achieve the torque that they make at a lower RPM than Dodge or GM. My last truck was an 89 with the 300, but my new truck is a 2000 with the 5.4, and my new one is by far the best towing vehicle that I have ever had. And I have had many of the older big block Fords of yesteryear.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,860
Likes: 4
From: Metro Detroit (Redford)
Big 300
The power band is dependent on many factors, including engine size, valve size and timing, length and diameter of intake runners, exhaust configuration, etc. I agree the Ford engines generally get torque at lower RPM than other brands. I looked at the torque curves from the 2000 brochure and here is what is shows for 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000 RPMs in pound-feet of torque:
4.6 V8: 250, 270, 285, 270, 210
5.4 V8: 280, 325, 330, 330, 250
Both engines top the 300 I6 at all RPM levels, which is about 225@1000, 265@2000-2500, 225@3400. However, the 300 I6 is very likey far more durable than these engines. Also, I have read that a straight six is a better configuration for torque output. And note that cylinder for cylinder, the 300 I6 has bigger jugs and more torque thrust per jug than either of these engines. I am on my third 300 I6 truck and would love to have my next truck be a SuperDuty with a 300 I6 dropped in it.
Still, the modular engines seem to be some pretty good engines with some high tech durability features, such as deep-skirt block (allowing one piece oil pan gasket), cross-bolted mains, and internally counter-weighted crankshaft. Read about this engine at:
www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency19h.asp
4.6 V8: 250, 270, 285, 270, 210
5.4 V8: 280, 325, 330, 330, 250
Both engines top the 300 I6 at all RPM levels, which is about 225@1000, 265@2000-2500, 225@3400. However, the 300 I6 is very likey far more durable than these engines. Also, I have read that a straight six is a better configuration for torque output. And note that cylinder for cylinder, the 300 I6 has bigger jugs and more torque thrust per jug than either of these engines. I am on my third 300 I6 truck and would love to have my next truck be a SuperDuty with a 300 I6 dropped in it.
Still, the modular engines seem to be some pretty good engines with some high tech durability features, such as deep-skirt block (allowing one piece oil pan gasket), cross-bolted mains, and internally counter-weighted crankshaft. Read about this engine at:
www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency19h.asp
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Belleville USA
Big 300
I absolutely agree with you on the longevity and brute force, that was the reason for my post wishing for higher technology on the old I6. With dual overhead cams, 24 valves, counter rotating balancing shafts, refined portwork, I believe that we would be looking at a motor that would give 300+ HP naturally aspirated, and near the 400 mark or better with a supercharger. Imagine being able to pull stumps with a chevy truck attached to it, and then on the way home dust off a few cars at the stop lights! I would love it.
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Senior User
Joined: Dec 2001
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Big 300
I'm with you too, I've seen the ads for the new chevy straight 6 and since I love my Ford 300, it would be great to see it tweaked up. In the motorcycle world (like for trials bikes) I think they increase the weight of the flywheel for torque. I think tractors do that (i.e. have a big heavy flywheel) so that even a 30 hp motor can pull 10,000 lbs. Everyone wants to build more HP and torque seems to be just a byproduct.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,860
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From: Metro Detroit (Redford)
Big 300
Look at the starter motor. Bet that thing puts out a lot of torque, but probably only a quarter horsepower. All these power enthusiasts look at horsepower, but torque gets the work done. Horsepower is merely the speed at which that work gets done. So I want both, but if a compromise is to be made, I lean to the side of favoring torque. Look at the four-popper engines, they are way too small to put out much torque, so they make up for it by revving the daylights out of them to get high horsepower. They will scream a 2000 pound unibody front-wheel-drive tin can around town all day, but give them a real load and they would not get out of first gear.
A bent (V) 8 is just two four poppers joined at the hip.
INLINE SIX POWER!
300 Cubic Inches of Low RPM Truck Torque! And twin-I-beams too!
A bent (V) 8 is just two four poppers joined at the hip.
INLINE SIX POWER!
300 Cubic Inches of Low RPM Truck Torque! And twin-I-beams too!
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 95
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From: Belleville USA
Big 300
I know what you mean about the torque and most people ignoring it. Most of the Chevy guys are guilty of ignoring that fact. A friend of mine has a 2001 Chev 1500 Z71 with the 4:10 gears and the 5.3. He is always telling me about how he has 285 hp compared to my 260. He didn't believe me when I told him about the torque being the numbers that matter. Until we towed our nearly identical bass boats to Table Rock Lake in Southern Missouri. My truck has the 3:31 Gears, and I could still outpull him in the mountains. He was continually out of OD and I was only out of OD while going up the steep hills. His truck cannot pull his boat on flat surface at 70 mph in OD. We have never drag raced, but since our boat towing trip he hasn't mentioned the horsepower numbers anymore. I have ridden in his truck many times, and I believe that in a drag race he would probably get me up to 55 or 60 mph since he has the 4:10 gearing, but from then on he wouldn't have a prayer.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 5,860
Likes: 4
From: Metro Detroit (Redford)
Big 300
I looked on Carpoint.com:
The Ch**y 2001 1500 with 5.4 V8 is rated
285 hp@5200
325 tq@4000
Whereas the Ford F150 5.3 V8 is rated
260 hp@4500
350 tq@2500
Now look at the highly useful RPM level for peak torque on the Ford! This guy in the Shivve has got to downshift a lot more to stay up near his torque peak. Also, the Ford is running 9.0 compression vs the Shivve's 9.5 and the Ford has a 4.16 stroke vs the Shivve's 3.62 stroke. The longer stroke is better for torque.
Ford knows how to build a TRUCK engine!
The Ch**y 2001 1500 with 5.4 V8 is rated
285 hp@5200
325 tq@4000
Whereas the Ford F150 5.3 V8 is rated
260 hp@4500
350 tq@2500
Now look at the highly useful RPM level for peak torque on the Ford! This guy in the Shivve has got to downshift a lot more to stay up near his torque peak. Also, the Ford is running 9.0 compression vs the Shivve's 9.5 and the Ford has a 4.16 stroke vs the Shivve's 3.62 stroke. The longer stroke is better for torque.
Ford knows how to build a TRUCK engine!
