Basic welding with a torch?
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Basic welding with a torch?
I know nothing about welding.. someone told me there is a weld you can use with a basic propane torch.
The bed on my 78 is a bit loose on one end, it just needs a bit of extra support.. it's not bad at all, JB-Weld almost holds it until I do any real offroading in it.
With no experience, can I go buy some item to weld this small section of my bed with using a propane torch? It doesn't have to look good (it's on the floor of the bed, under a bed liner) and it doesn't have to be very strong.. I just know I can't buy any extra equipment at the moment, so I'm hoping there is something I can buy for a few bucks that I can melt with a propane torch..
Thanks.. and sorry for being an idiot
Learning to weld is on my super long list of things to do.
The bed on my 78 is a bit loose on one end, it just needs a bit of extra support.. it's not bad at all, JB-Weld almost holds it until I do any real offroading in it.
With no experience, can I go buy some item to weld this small section of my bed with using a propane torch? It doesn't have to look good (it's on the floor of the bed, under a bed liner) and it doesn't have to be very strong.. I just know I can't buy any extra equipment at the moment, so I'm hoping there is something I can buy for a few bucks that I can melt with a propane torch..
Thanks.. and sorry for being an idiot
Learning to weld is on my super long list of things to do.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Kentucky
I use Mapp gas which burns hotter than propane and do small brazing jobs on small pieces of metal. Propane will probaly do it too. The brazing rods are usually the white coated rods hanging in the welding supply isles at home building stores. ...
The metal will have to be pulled together or metal pop riveted in to fill gaps because, brazing has no "filling" properties. Wire brush the metal good, heat it until it turns cherry red then lay the end of the brazing rod on it while keeping the torch on it. . ...
If the metal is hot enough, the flux on the rod will melt first, then the rod will flow like water and cool hard to look like brass. Not as good as a mig or stick weld of course, but may get you by until you win the lotto. good luck.
P.S Watch out for combustibles or gas lines /leaks near the repair !!
The metal will have to be pulled together or metal pop riveted in to fill gaps because, brazing has no "filling" properties. Wire brush the metal good, heat it until it turns cherry red then lay the end of the brazing rod on it while keeping the torch on it. . ...
If the metal is hot enough, the flux on the rod will melt first, then the rod will flow like water and cool hard to look like brass. Not as good as a mig or stick weld of course, but may get you by until you win the lotto. good luck.
P.S Watch out for combustibles or gas lines /leaks near the repair !!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Piney Woods of East Texas
Brazing requires a LAP joint in order to hold. So unless you are doing a seam you may have to attached a piece of sheet metal behind it. A lot of time is is used to fill holes. On HorsePower TV saturday they showed using a tig torch with a brazing rod to keep the heat down while filling holes around a windshield. Also showed how to do repairs on corners and hard/very expensive repairs if done at a body shop.
Then if this is in a middle of a panel you may warp it due to heat.
Then if this is in a middle of a panel you may warp it due to heat.
Hotshot
Joined: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by ErrorS
I know nothing about welding.. someone told me there is a weld you can use with a basic propane torch.
The bed on my 78 is a bit loose on one end, it just needs a bit of extra support.. it's not bad at all, JB-Weld almost holds it until I do any real offroading in it.
With no experience, can I go buy some item to weld this small section of my bed with using a propane torch? It doesn't have to look good (it's on the floor of the bed, under a bed liner) and it doesn't have to be very strong.. I just know I can't buy any extra equipment at the moment, so I'm hoping there is something I can buy for a few bucks that I can melt with a propane torch..
Thanks.. and sorry for being an idiot Learning to weld is on my super long list of things to do.
The bed on my 78 is a bit loose on one end, it just needs a bit of extra support.. it's not bad at all, JB-Weld almost holds it until I do any real offroading in it.
With no experience, can I go buy some item to weld this small section of my bed with using a propane torch? It doesn't have to look good (it's on the floor of the bed, under a bed liner) and it doesn't have to be very strong.. I just know I can't buy any extra equipment at the moment, so I'm hoping there is something I can buy for a few bucks that I can melt with a propane torch..
Thanks.. and sorry for being an idiot
Learning to weld is on my super long list of things to do.
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Great information guys, this helps a lot.. I think I can do it.
I'll probably get an angled piece to braze to my bed to hold it together. It's at the bottom, driver side corner below the tailgate.. the two pieces overlap each other, though I'm not sure they still will when I cut/sand down all the rusted through areas.
If I get good enough maybe I can use it to do my cab corners? we'll find out.. couple of bucks for a brazing rod, I have a ton of scrap metal to practice on.. Gonna have fun with this tomorrow.
Gonna see if I can find some brazing videos on youtube. Even with that guide (which was a TON of help) I still do better seeing it done in action first.
I'll probably get an angled piece to braze to my bed to hold it together. It's at the bottom, driver side corner below the tailgate.. the two pieces overlap each other, though I'm not sure they still will when I cut/sand down all the rusted through areas.
If I get good enough maybe I can use it to do my cab corners? we'll find out.. couple of bucks for a brazing rod, I have a ton of scrap metal to practice on.. Gonna have fun with this tomorrow.
Gonna see if I can find some brazing videos on youtube. Even with that guide (which was a TON of help) I still do better seeing it done in action first.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Piney Woods of East Texas
Good luck and have fun.
Work on reading the metal temp. The flux will melt just before the bronze does, so you will know when your getting close. If the thickness of the materials are the same it easer, other wise you have to concentrate on the thicker metal.
Work on reading the metal temp. The flux will melt just before the bronze does, so you will know when your getting close. If the thickness of the materials are the same it easer, other wise you have to concentrate on the thicker metal.
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I pulled my old helper springs, I think those will be perfect surfaces to practice on. I might end up buying an oxygen aceteline mix though.. watched some videos and that stuff would heat the steal instantly, when I use my propane torch it takes forever to get even small pieces of steel that hot.
I'm thinking about all the cool things I can do now.. for example, I have a transmission cooler I custom made with two fans, been trying to think of a good location to zip tie it to the truck. It would probably take me about 3 minutes to make a custom mount now..
Would it be stupid for me to try to braze towhooks to my front bumper support? (78 F150) My old U-Joints would be perfect..
oooh, I could start some custom skid plates. Flat sheet metal or even a tube cage for the lower section of my truck, that should be easy.
I'l really excited.. I plan on spending quite a bit on fuel and rods tomorrow.
I'm thinking about all the cool things I can do now.. for example, I have a transmission cooler I custom made with two fans, been trying to think of a good location to zip tie it to the truck. It would probably take me about 3 minutes to make a custom mount now..
Would it be stupid for me to try to braze towhooks to my front bumper support? (78 F150) My old U-Joints would be perfect..
oooh, I could start some custom skid plates. Flat sheet metal or even a tube cage for the lower section of my truck, that should be easy.
I'l really excited.. I plan on spending quite a bit on fuel and rods tomorrow.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Piney Woods of East Texas
I would look at a tig torch instead of oxy/ace bottles. I think you will be out the same amount of money depending on bottle size, but you will need one CO2 for shielding. Then you will have a small hot torch that you can actually weld most any thing with and have great temp control. You can actually use it to weld body panels in with. Not quite as fast as a mig but will give you a better quality of weld.
Don't get carried away with brazing, it's use is limited. I use to do a lot of silver soldering on refrigeration lines. It's slighlty lower temp than bronze.
If you really think your got your temp control down. Pickup some AL electric welding rods and use a oxy/acet torch to weld AL sheets together. There is some AL brazing rods but it's not the same. It's a lot easier with a tig torch. I want to build a custom gas tank for my 68 and haven't decided if I want to buy a TIG welder big enough for 1/4" anchor plate or use my oxy/acet torch.
Don't get carried away with brazing, it's use is limited. I use to do a lot of silver soldering on refrigeration lines. It's slighlty lower temp than bronze.
If you really think your got your temp control down. Pickup some AL electric welding rods and use a oxy/acet torch to weld AL sheets together. There is some AL brazing rods but it's not the same. It's a lot easier with a tig torch. I want to build a custom gas tank for my 68 and haven't decided if I want to buy a TIG welder big enough for 1/4" anchor plate or use my oxy/acet torch.
Last edited by blue68f100; Nov 18, 2007 at 09:26 PM.
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In order to get a good bond brazing, make sure both surfaces to be joined are as clean as possible. Also, the more flux the better. Brazing is a very helpful trade to know and understand, however, like stated before, it's uses are limited. For light work, such as your sheet iron bed, it will work fine. To install the tow hooks, you are going to want a SMAW or GMAW bead imo. I am not a body man, but I have put in several hours behind a welding hood. I'm sure more will chime in. I have never TIG welded, so I know little about it, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys who have that will chime in shortly.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Piney Woods of East Texas
I just mentioned it because low power tig torch will work for both welding and brazing. Oxy/acet is mainly used for preheating and cutting these days. Most plumbers and ac tech use straight acet. But you can buy good mig welders for around $300 these days.
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Propane didn't work very well.. Practiced on my leaf springs and it wouldn't heat them hot enough, though it did smaller pieces of metal fine I don't think it will heat the parts of my bed hot enough.
My budget is extremely limited at the moment.. was going to get a tax refund loan but decided it would be better to wait, so until I get my refund I'm working on a "whatever I have left, after savings" budget.
They have a kit with Oxy/Acet at a Rural King store here for $30, it comes with the torch. Will I definitely need both to heat metal hot enough? I liked the idea of the small, single bottle of propane, it's easy to handle. Can I use a straight oxygen or acetylin bottle on my propane torch and have it burn hotter than the propane I'm using?
The bottles are both about the size of a small, handheld propane bottle. They sell straight oxygen or straight acetylene and it's dirt cheap.
My budget is extremely limited at the moment.. was going to get a tax refund loan but decided it would be better to wait, so until I get my refund I'm working on a "whatever I have left, after savings" budget.
They have a kit with Oxy/Acet at a Rural King store here for $30, it comes with the torch. Will I definitely need both to heat metal hot enough? I liked the idea of the small, single bottle of propane, it's easy to handle. Can I use a straight oxygen or acetylin bottle on my propane torch and have it burn hotter than the propane I'm using?
The bottles are both about the size of a small, handheld propane bottle. They sell straight oxygen or straight acetylene and it's dirt cheap.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Piney Woods of East Texas
I think you are referring to the pellet oxygen for propane. The Oxygen with either gas will make it burn hotter and produce more BTU's. The propane if my memory is any good is only around 2400F, with Oxy/acet you are 6000F. I think MAPP gas is around 4000+F but has a higher BTU than straight oxy/act. Your brazing temp you need is around 1600F. As you can see the Oxy/Act has the higher delta. MAPP gas is more widely used in preheating and cutting of heavier plates.
Remember that you will have to have the bottles filled, those small bottles only 12" or so high will not last very long. Used mainly in plumbing and AC work. ALL acetylene bottles must be vertical. You can not lay them on the side. It contains acetone as a coupler in which the acetylene is dissolved in. The cylinder has a honeycomb substense for the acetone. If you lay it on the side acetone will damage the regulator.
Remember that you will have to have the bottles filled, those small bottles only 12" or so high will not last very long. Used mainly in plumbing and AC work. ALL acetylene bottles must be vertical. You can not lay them on the side. It contains acetone as a coupler in which the acetylene is dissolved in. The cylinder has a honeycomb substense for the acetone. If you lay it on the side acetone will damage the regulator.
