460 heads thunder jets??
460 heads thunder jets??
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From: iowa
thunderjets are standard passenger car, grandma's station wagon heads. Yep the vaunted DOVE heads came off your grandma's 429 2V mercury maurader or Lincoln. No DOVE heads are NOT the best, they aren't any better or worse then C8VE or C9VE and they don't flow any better than D3VE heads (only advantage is the smaller combustion chamber, actual power potential is actually the same though). The DOVE heads are physically identical to the earlier heads, just have a catchier casting number thus people think it means something but alas nope just another passenger car head.
The best of the factory stuff outside the Boss 9, is of coarse the CJ/SCJ heads, casting number D00E-R heads, followed by the PI heads casting number D2AE, and the worst is the 72 open chamber heads casting number D2VE which is the only one of the 429/460 heads I will ever say to replace if you have them.
The best of the factory stuff outside the Boss 9, is of coarse the CJ/SCJ heads, casting number D00E-R heads, followed by the PI heads casting number D2AE, and the worst is the 72 open chamber heads casting number D2VE which is the only one of the 429/460 heads I will ever say to replace if you have them.
Last edited by monsterbaby; Nov 15, 2007 at 11:16 PM.
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The stock iron 460 heads are a tease. On the intake side, the oval-shaped intake offers an attractive cross-sectional area for solid torque and horsepower potential along with acceptable valve sizes of 2.19/1.76 for the early castings. But just like its small-block cousins, the 460 exhaust ports are some of the most restrictive we've come across. Exhaust port flow is so poor that using a big cam will only kill power across the board. The long duration will hurt low-end torque, while the restricted exhaust ports will choke any chance of making power at the higher engine speeds.
Choosing a decent iron production head is a quest to minimize the corks. It appears the iron '69 C9VE or '70 D0VE casting numbers are the best heads to use for a budget performance engine. All iron production heads from 1968 to 1971 were closed chamber and 76 cc's. These are becoming increasingly hard to find, and we won't even talk about the iron 429 Cobra Jet and Boss 429 aluminum castings-they might as well have been buried with King Tut. In 1972, Ford went to an open 95 to 100cc chamber, which should be avoided as the worst of all the iron 460 designs because it has no quench area and is therefore prone to detonation. The '73-and-later heads went back to a closed-chamber configuration but with deeper 95cc/100cc chambers.
(car craft magazine)
Choosing a decent iron production head is a quest to minimize the corks. It appears the iron '69 C9VE or '70 D0VE casting numbers are the best heads to use for a budget performance engine. All iron production heads from 1968 to 1971 were closed chamber and 76 cc's. These are becoming increasingly hard to find, and we won't even talk about the iron 429 Cobra Jet and Boss 429 aluminum castings-they might as well have been buried with King Tut. In 1972, Ford went to an open 95 to 100cc chamber, which should be avoided as the worst of all the iron 460 designs because it has no quench area and is therefore prone to detonation. The '73-and-later heads went back to a closed-chamber configuration but with deeper 95cc/100cc chambers.
(car craft magazine)
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: iowa
actually the early casting heads do NOT have the cj valve sizes the stock valves in the early casting is the same as the later smog stuff 2.08/1.67 just like 351C2V heads. And the early castings on not worth spending the money looking to find because you will not gain anything in the power dept for the cost if you don't happen to have a motor with them on them when you buy it. With the exception of the D2VE casting all the 429/460 heads have the same power potential and should be used.
And car craft magizine is NOT worth reading thats teh same one that published the article that stated the block you wanted to try to find was the 4 bolt main truck block with the D7 or D8TE casting numbers. This block does NOT exist never has and that rag doesn't know anything about it.
And car craft magizine is NOT worth reading thats teh same one that published the article that stated the block you wanted to try to find was the 4 bolt main truck block with the D7 or D8TE casting numbers. This block does NOT exist never has and that rag doesn't know anything about it.
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From: Springfield, VA
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
And car craft magizine is NOT worth reading thats teh same one that published the article that stated the block you wanted to try to find was the 4 bolt main truck block with the D7 or D8TE casting numbers. This block does NOT exist never has and that rag doesn't know anything about it.
So I take it you are not a big fan of Car Craft??? lol
Got a question for ya, there Monster. I recently picked up a motor from a 79 F-100 2wd truck. It looks to be the original motor with the stock manifolds and looks like the only performance add on was the addition of an Edelbrock carb. Is this a good motor to start a build with, or should I ditch it and look for a specifica casting? My plan is to 514 stroker it and put it in a Ranger for the mud (yep, saw yours and decided I needed to build one to run out here on the East coast!!!).
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From: iowa
Kjett if that is the original engine and it has the D9TE casting block it's the one I prefer for strokers due to the cylinders being slightly longer (approx 3/16th inch longer) but like the heads I don't say get rid of whatever block you have but if your looking for one from scratch I say go with the D9TE block on a stroker. BTW that is the block my engine is based on, still running the factory 2 bolt main caps for 3 yrs at over 900hp so don't let people tell you it's weak or needs to be converted to 4 bolt mains, I also have a friend running one with a 514 stroker, 2 bolt mains and pumps 250hp nitrous to it for the past 2 yrs and the D9TE block was also the one that ford used for the 514 crate motors too.
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From: Springfield, VA
I'll have to check the casting #'s when I pull it apart to clean it up. But sounds like I got the right one then!! I've been lurking over at 460ford for a few weeks now and think i found a good combo using a 514 kit and a set of Kasse P51 heads. Around here, it's nothing but Chevy guys and my old 95 F-150 with the 351W was hanging close, but I couln't get over the hump to just destroy them, so I am bringing out a heavy hitter with the BB stroker in the light weight Ranger body!
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From: iowa
what bore stroke you looking at to achieve 514? Fords 514 is actually a 521. if your looking at 4.14" stroke 4.440 bore can I suggest instead going with 4.3" stroke and if the block will clean up at .030 then only bore it that far for a 4.390 bore giving you a 521 and with Kaase's heads and I would have to look again but I believe he did that combo with a 850cfm carb and a hyd roller comp 292hr cam and achieved 703hp with his P51 heads unported out of the box.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: iowa
availability mainly,
also since the chev rod bearing is 2.2" vs fords 2.5" the original strokers used offset ground cranks so you had that .3" you could offset and get the rods to fit. Also the smaller rod bearing gives you a slower bearing speed.
Using odd ball rods or dimensions really looses any brand reference at a certain level. Nascar engines use Honda rod bearings if that gives you an idea, and most strokers always ended up using rods from other engines a lot of times. Yes the dimensions are chev but no one cares it's a 2.2" with a .990 pin etc. Heck I use BBC exhaust gaskets and headers, the push rods I run don't correspond to any factory engine, the intake gaskets are specific to the heads not any factory engine (bolt pattern for the intake doesn't match anything except TFS A head designs) after a particular point you are dealing with measurements not brands.
Hope that helps instead of confuses ya more.
also since the chev rod bearing is 2.2" vs fords 2.5" the original strokers used offset ground cranks so you had that .3" you could offset and get the rods to fit. Also the smaller rod bearing gives you a slower bearing speed.
Using odd ball rods or dimensions really looses any brand reference at a certain level. Nascar engines use Honda rod bearings if that gives you an idea, and most strokers always ended up using rods from other engines a lot of times. Yes the dimensions are chev but no one cares it's a 2.2" with a .990 pin etc. Heck I use BBC exhaust gaskets and headers, the push rods I run don't correspond to any factory engine, the intake gaskets are specific to the heads not any factory engine (bolt pattern for the intake doesn't match anything except TFS A head designs) after a particular point you are dealing with measurements not brands.
Hope that helps instead of confuses ya more.
Last edited by monsterbaby; Nov 16, 2007 at 09:29 PM.
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From: Springfield, VA
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
what bore stroke you looking at to achieve 514? Fords 514 is actually a 521. if your looking at 4.14" stroke 4.440 bore can I suggest instead going with 4.3" stroke and if the block will clean up at .030 then only bore it that far for a 4.390 bore giving you a 521 and with Kaase's heads and I would have to look again but I believe he did that combo with a 850cfm carb and a hyd roller comp 292hr cam and achieved 703hp with his P51 heads unported out of the box.
I saw the write-up from Kasse about that 514 with his P51 heads. Originally I was planning on just doing a .030 bore and put a set of his heads on it, set up like the Engine Masters writeup. Heck, that 466 build with stock crank and rods with a Deamon 1150 carb and the P51 heads made 700hp on 100 octane race fuel! That was the whole reason I started looking at the P51 heads in the 1st palce.
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Originally Posted by 76cougar74100
hey i was wondering what are the 429 thunder jet heads like on a 460 from 1976? i know d0ve heads are the best any one with thunder jets? differences??
If you are asking whether the Thunderjet heads work well on a 1976 shortblock, the answer is that yes they do but you must utilize the valve train as well, since the 1976 valve train will not work on the TJ heads.
Paul
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From: Springfield, VA
Well, either the new aluminum SCJ heads or the Kasse P51 heads!! Theat's the route I'm looking to go. Do a search on Car Craft (I believe it was them) that took a 466 with the P51 heads and a custom grind crank, and the thing spit out like 700hp on 100 octane fuel. It was nuts, especially with the stock crank and rods!
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: iowa
depends on what your doing, the P51s and the alum SCJ heads are both real good setups but are both based on the SCJ head from the early years. more of a performance setup, if your looking for a hot street setup in a truck I would seriously look into the TFS street heads too, based more on the DOVE heads and a dang nice setup also.