What fuel additive does everyone usually use in their trucks? I have been using Diesel Kleen in the gray bottle. Is the Stana-dyne additive better than the Power Service products? I get the Diesel Kleen at Wally world but can get the Stana-dyne at a local diesel repair shop.

 

I'm done with diesel klean. Some members on another forum got together and had about some products analyzed for effectiviness (?spelling?). Diesel Klean was towards the bottom slightly better than straight #2. The leader I believe was bio-fuel and another cheap alternative that was towards the top was 2 cycle oil. Gonna have to dig that one up again on the other site.

 

Here you go. Was found on another site for what it's worth. I don't know the effect of these items items long term so use at your own risk.

 

One thing to keep in ind about that study you're referring to, dpwilson, is that it only focused on lubricity alone, and did not evaluate anything regarding improved mileage or injector cleaning characteristics, cetane improvements for better combustion, and fuel anti-gelling assistance. Also, the study you're referring to was done by a professional organization outside of FTE, but was paid for by a different diesel site (the Diesel Place).

Here are a few more thought-provoking questions adn issues that you should also be considering.

1. How much lubricity do the injectors really need before their live outlives the rest of the engine? No one really knows the answer to that one.

2. Stanadyne has a solid reputation as a diesel additive not just because of it's lubricity (which is higher than DK), but also because of its injector cleaning characteristics. Besides, who is it that builds most injectors for Ford? Stanadyne. They should know their business regarding what it takes to keep their equipment clean and functioning properly.

3. There were other additive products that provided nearly the same or better lubricity than the 2-cycle oil you mentioned, which was ranked #7 in the list.

Here is the link to a recent thread that contains the preliminary study results and some excellent discussion about the issues involved. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ubricity+study

 

DPWilson, I love data but I don't understand what they were testing for. Were they looking at the mixed fuel itself or analysis of exhaust gasses or hp gains or anti gelling?
Not trying to attack, just would love to know.

 

They are measuring the tendency for "scarring" in mechanical processes as a direct implication of injector and fuel pump wear in our PSD's. It is a valid test that is accepted by the industry, and you can find excellent discussion about it in the thread I linked in my previous post.

 

Thanks, I was reading your link when you posted..

 

As F250 said, they looked at the HFRR scarring standard. Here is a document you might like to read on the subject. This is from the document linked:

Based on the HFRR testing run by Stanadyne (manufacturer of PSD injectors), and testing from other laboratories showing similar results, Stanadyne Automotive has stated:

“….we have tested biodiesel at Stanadyne and results indicate that the inclusion of 2% biodiesel into any conventional diesel fuel will be sufficient to address the lubricity concerns that we have with these existing diesel fuels. From our standpoint, inclusion of biodiesel is desirable for two reasons. First it would eliminate the inherent variability associated with the use of other additives and whether sufficient additive was used to make the fuel fully lubricious. Second, we consider biodiesel a fuel or fuel component—not an additive…Thus if more biodiesel is added than required to increase lubricity, there will not be the adverse consequences that might be seen if other lubricity additives are dosed at too high a rate.”

This implies that the addition of additives beyond recommended dosage, can actually have negative consequences to a diesel engine, but nothing but positives for biodiesel...I wish they would have continued and said exactly what they might be. When ULSD came out I immediately switched to 5% biodiesel and stopped using additives entirely. I got got in the change to LSD with my heavy truck about 25 years ago...never again.

 

I normally use the stanadyne performance formula in my tank. I am happy with it so far. I have also tried a product in my farm tractor diesels that seems to work well for cleaning the injectors made by Texas Refineries. Nevr tried it in my power stroke as it don't get abused like the used farm tractors I own.

 

Neal, have you ever seen any other documentation that addresses the issue quoted from your quote that defines and quantifies the "adverse consequences that might be seen if other lubricity additives are dosed at too high a rate” ?

I am not necessarily doubting what you're saying (or them for that matter), but all I have ever seen on this issue of "over-dosing" fuel additives has been the same type of statement that never really defines the details of what the adverse consequences are, how bad they are, or how much OD-ing is required before they start showing up. I'm sure that the amount required to be considered an "overdose" will vary by manufacturer and product, and potentially as whether or not they are dosing into #2, ULSD, or bioD.

 

No I haven't Pete ...I wish I could find it. But the interesting thing is that the quote comes from Stanadyne research. I posted this because it came from Stanadyne and I bet they have quantified, but I can't find it. Here are some references that might lead us to the quantification:

1 “Reformulated Diesel Fuels and Fuel Injection Equipment, Paper by Hugh C. Grigg, Lucan Powertrain Systems, Presented at the New Fuels and Vehicles for Cleaner Air Conference, January 11-12, 1994, Phoenix, Arizona.
2 “Fuel Lubricity Reviewed”, Paul Lacey, Southwest Research Institute, Steve Howell, MARC-IV Consulting, Inc., SAE paper number 982567, International Fall Fuels and Lubricants Meeting and Exposition, October 19-22, 1998, San Francisco, California.
3 “Fuels for Diesel Engines—Diesel Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers Common Position Statement”, Signed by Delphi Diesel Systems, Stanadyne Automotive Corp., Denso Corporation, and Robert Bosch GmbH, issued June, 2000.
4 “Diesel Fuel Lubricity”, Paul Lacey and Steve Westbrook, Southwest Research Institute, SAE paper 950248, International Congress and Exposition, Detroit, Michigan, February 27-March 2, 1995

 

All I can say, thanks Pete and Neal, you guys keep a dislexick like me from having a major headache with all of the research you guys have already done!!!

 

Perhaps one of our perto employees will have a source on this issue as well... if they see the thread and then choose to participate.

Thanks for the sources.

BTW... I have searched and cannot find anything except the position statement (3rd reference), which is not enlightening at all.

I also just sent the following letter to one of the reference's authors, hoping he can lead us in the right direction.

Mr. Westbrook:

I am a diesel enthusiast as of the past year when I purchased my first diesel in a 2002 Ford F250 truck for my personal use. Since that time, I have been very active in the Ford Truck Enthusiast web site and forums associated with my truck model. One of the issues that has recently arisen for the umpteenth time is that of fuel lubricity. A number of us have been discussing the recently published preliminary results of a Lubricity Study that characterizes some 19 products which affect diesel fuel lubricity. One of Stanadyne's statements on this issue has indicated that the are potential adverse consequences which can arise from over dosing aftermarket fuel additives, which is consistent with similarly qualitative statements which a number of us keep reading about, but there is no data provided to back up these statements... at least none that we can find.


Therefore, I am hoping that you can point me in the right direction here. Do you know of any sources/studies/research projects which have done any of the following:

1. define what adverse consequences can arise from the consumer's overuse of aftermarket diesel fuel additives
2. quantify which additives (or additive components) can result in these types of adverse consequences
3. define the dosing level which would be considered "to high"
4. relate the issue of "overuse" with the different diesel fuels readily available today (#2, ULSD, bioDiesel, and bioDiesel blends with either #2 or ULSD)


We will be very grateful for any time you take in reviewing this note and responding with any information you feel would help us become more responsible owner/operators of our diesel engines.

Sincerely.

 

You are more than welcome, but it is a disease that we suffer from. We have to do this to keep the disease in remission !

 

Look at this study, (click here if you want a pdf file of this study) and in particular one of the findings:

"Previous research carried out for 1-methylnaphthalene and equivoluminal mixture of n-hexadecane and 1-methyl-naphthalene containing palmitic acid at 50, 100, 500, 750, 1000 ppm concentration demonstrated that (Figure 13) [25]:

• 100 - 500 ppm concentration of palmitic acid reduced the ball wear for both lubricants very significantly;
• for the solution of palmitic acid in the mixture of aromatic and paraffin hydrocarbons the maximum wear appeared at the same concentration (750 ppm) as for n-hexadecane"

Now I will grant that this is only one additive (palmitic acid), but it does indicate that a lubrication additive can reduce wear at one concentration and INCREASE wear at a higher concentration. WOW!

Thanks Pete for the letter ...I appreciate it, as I am sure do many others.