The soundbite used in this thread is not from a 77 Ford p/u, it is the soundbite taken from this video of a 1462 rwhp Mustang.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9ab8e11c-b2b7-4d34-a23b-22272d9a953d.htm

Sorry but I had to call you out on this!!

 

Don't be sorry Brett because you're correct. It's also on youtube.

Our posting of the audio from that clip (I should stop saying "our" since it's my FTE account) was certainly was moronic at best. To one's ears, they sound very similar - enough that it would surprise you, but that doesn't make it right. So, my apologies for doing so.

We were just frustrated we couldn't record the tuning of his truck ourselves. All I had was an mp3 player that records with a built-in mic and the sound volume was too much for it's cheesy automatic level control - all we got was high pitched square waves. In the cab, outside the truck, 30' away, even idling we couldn't get a recording.

Both the 'stang in the clip and my buddy's '77 contain stroked aftermarket blocks, lower than stock compression, highish overlap cams and tons of boost except the 'stang is pro-built and has one massive turbo and my buddy's has two T70's instead - each capable of flowing 75lbs/min, 1000 cfm or thereabouts - each. So if you calculate all that out the resulting HP is probably in the same ballpark. His ultimate goal is 1500 hp @ 6500 RPM and he's well on his way. Anyway, that's why to us at least, they sounded similar enough we gave up on trying to record the tuning.

But you're right... we pilfered... so... my apologies for doing so.

 

Ok, which one of you sumbitches am I going to have to fly here to finally get may application *just* right?

 

Where is "here"?

BTW, working on tuning projects like this can often be done through email. Obviously it takes significantly longer to tune as there's a lot of back and forth type delays (as most people have real lives to deal with) and of course sometimes the results can be misintepreted as well, resulting in the next BIN revision being worse lol.

What's your combination/application/EFI controller? Ford EEC? Tec II/III? DFI?

 

Herman's is going to be Ford EEC-5 OBD-2.

I thought you had your hot rod dialed in...what's goin' on? I have EASE and Live Link (for datalogging) on my PC.

 

EEC5 from 95/96 which supports a distributor? I just started getting into EEC-V. Trying to slowly migrate off GM stuff here.

I've been into EEC4 stuff a bit...

 

The OBD-2/EEC-5's (97+) don't use a distributor. Now some of the 96-97 F-250's (before the body style change) are OBD-2 with a distributor on the 5.8's.

 

Yes, and are an EEC-V. That's the particular EEC I have sitting on the workbench waiting for time to dissect.

 

IRC...The ECU's of that era have a function or two that need to be disabled if it's programmed to control an E4OD transmission, should your plans consist of a manual or other transmission.

 

I have a few EEC-V's in the pile, but I think it's this one:

F6TF-12A60-MD YAZ3 ML1-441

1995.

I don't recall if its from a 302 or 351... but the plan is to dissect it and adjust the parameters for about 500cid.

I've gotten as far as acquiring it, making a partial wiring harness to use as a test bench, and power it up to make sure it works.

 

It looks like that one may be from a 96 5.0 truck...possibly a 4R70W transmission.

 

Dialed in, yes. Consistent no. Ambient air temperature seems to have the most dramatic impact. Tuned for maximum power at a lower ambient temperature results in pinging at a higher ambient temperature. Tuning for maximum power at a higher ambient temperature alleviates pinging under any operational conditions, yet leaves 75 HP and 50 ft/lbs torque (maximum).

Why can't I have it all?

The addition of the water/methanol injection has only made the *inconsistencies* worse. (Disclaimer: maximum HP and torque did go up substantially as advertised by this forum’s sponsor.)

A ***** out four wheel dyno tune has lead to my highest HP and torque ever achieved on 93 octane in a given pull. However, as I have brought up before, the water/methanol control system (on at a specific boost pressure with flow moderated to a max boost pressure) isn't cutting it. I only see a 2-3psi difference between 2,000 and 6,500 RPM and I can tell you right here and now that the motor can take a whole lot more water/methanol at peak RPM than it can when I first mash the go pedal.

So what happens is this: when tuned for a straight up 2nd gear pull I get perfect (outstanding actually) results. Then I roll on down the interstate at 70MPH and 2,000 RPM and tip into the boost while still locked in overdrive and get serious combustion quench; under the same conditions, mashing the go pedal results in a downshift to 2nd gear and quite possibly the most impressive 70-80 MPH time achieved in a 6,250 pound vehicle. But what happens after the 2-3 shift? Combustion quench stutter until about 4,000 RPM. If I back off on the water/methanol injection, I can alleviate the combustion quench, but again, I'm leaving something on the table (including that nasty spark knock).

Perhaps over the Thanksgiving holiday I'll reengineer the water/methanol control system to take its 'on' input from MAF voltage as opposed to boost psi, but it will remain to be seen whether I can 'curve' the delivery of the water/methanol mix as needed. Why didn't the control system just take MAF voltage or load when determining the rate of delivery? I don't know, perhaps some ignorance on my part.

Best and most consistent results ever? Pre water/methanol injection when tuned and run on 100LL, but I can't fill up at the airport every two days.

 

Lafayette Indiana.

EEC V (DZU3)

 

Herman,

You can't have it all unfortunately - all projects of this kind are about tradeoffs which I'm sure you know all to well at this point.

There could be several things going on here...

The first one you're already aware of - intake charge temperature. Do you have any figures?

Do you have an intercooler (water or air)?

Generally speaking you'll find that alcohol/water injection will reduce intake charge temperatures, but not quite as effectively as a large intercooler of some kind. Since you already have a tank and plumbing for your alky/water injection system you probably don't want to bother with the weight and complexity of a water-based intercooler system. Assuming this is an F-Truck you probably can install a powerstroke aluminum intercooler on the front side of your radiator core support fairly easily. It's a matter of boring two large holes for the inlet/outlets using a bi-metal hole saw and an electric drill, and four much smaller holes for the mounting ears. If you drill the holes undersized you can use self-tapping metal screws about 1/4" in diameter for a nice tight fit. The powerstroke intercooler has rubber grommets with a steel sleeve inside.

How is your water/alky injection system managed? Does it increase across an assigned RPM band? Or is it triggered by a voltage? Or a frequency or pulse width?

Also, do you have everything set up to maximize at redline, or at peak HP/Torque?

I've actually been to Lafayette before.... around 1989/90 or so.

 

Thinking out load... IAT sensor?

My "very-redneck" water-spray on my intercooler had a threshold IAT above which it would turn on.


What kind of program can you write for the controller?
Something which uses boost pressure, IAT and MAF as multipliers?