Towing on grades
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Junior User
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Towing on grades
My 1999 F-350 Power Stroke DSL has a auto tranny in it and It was suggested to me that I have a jake brake or exhaust brake or some kind of after market break assist installed on my truck. I will be towing a 36 ft. 5th wheel. Is this good advice and if so whats the recomended product.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Windsor, Colorado
I wouldnt say it is a must, more of an option. I have towed up and down all the major passes in the western US without a hitch. The key is keeping your speed undercontrol before you start the decent. I alway pick a target speed. let it go 5mph over and brake hard until i am 5 under. Sometimes its a long trip down a hill at 30 mph, but I have yet to toast any brakes. JMO
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
According to the CDL test that I took a long time ago, the best way control a heavy truck is to give only enough brake pressure to keep the speed constant.
Hard jabs to bring the speed back down will make the brakes hotter than a very light steady pressure over a long down hill run.
I love my exhaust brake. It enables me to coast down a 6% grade 24,000lb at 50-55 mph and never have to use the brakes. Turn the brake off and it's a runaway truck.
Hard jabs to bring the speed back down will make the brakes hotter than a very light steady pressure over a long down hill run.
I love my exhaust brake. It enables me to coast down a 6% grade 24,000lb at 50-55 mph and never have to use the brakes. Turn the brake off and it's a runaway truck.
Posting Guru
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From: Windsor, Colorado
In my experience riding them lightly will get them much hotter than getting on them and letting them cool back down. I dont think the CDL book I studied suggested riding them lightly, but I could be wrong.
An exhaust brake would be useful, I have just learned how to deal without it. BTW how hard is the exhaust brake on the motor?
An exhaust brake would be useful, I have just learned how to deal without it. BTW how hard is the exhaust brake on the motor?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by mudmaker
BTW how hard is the exhaust brake on the motor?
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/2...brake-mod.html
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Millersville, MD
...and you can drop the tranny down a gear too......That helps a lot and really cools engine and tranny WAY down!
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by Kwikkordead
According to the CDL test that I took a long time ago, the best way control a heavy truck is to give only enough brake pressure to keep the speed constant.
Hard jabs to bring the speed back down will make the brakes hotter than a very light steady pressure over a long down hill run.
I love my exhaust brake. It enables me to coast down a 6% grade 24,000lb at 50-55 mph and never have to use the brakes. Turn the brake off and it's a runaway truck.
Hard jabs to bring the speed back down will make the brakes hotter than a very light steady pressure over a long down hill run.
I love my exhaust brake. It enables me to coast down a 6% grade 24,000lb at 50-55 mph and never have to use the brakes. Turn the brake off and it's a runaway truck.
I was told that the jab and release method would cause repeated heating and cooling of the shoes and drums and cause them to glaze over with the end result being like trying to rub two pieces of glass together to get the rig stopped.
Maybe they changed to the jab and release because of differences in the stuff they use to make the brake shoes now? Or it could be (in some cases) because of disc brakes?
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Fleet Owner
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by glsurratt
Evidently, they've changed the braking strategy since you and I read that CDL book long ago. I was always taught to ride the brakes lightly going down a hill.
I was told that the jab and release method would cause repeated heating and cooling of the shoes and drums and cause them to glaze over with the end result being like trying to rub two pieces of glass together to get the rig stopped.
Maybe they changed to the jab and release because of differences in the stuff they use to make the brake shoes now? Or it could be (in some cases) because of disc brakes?
I was told that the jab and release method would cause repeated heating and cooling of the shoes and drums and cause them to glaze over with the end result being like trying to rub two pieces of glass together to get the rig stopped.
Maybe they changed to the jab and release because of differences in the stuff they use to make the brake shoes now? Or it could be (in some cases) because of disc brakes?
And I would have to see some documentation of the change before I would believe that the jab and release method is now recommended.
And I very seriously doubt that it's changed, the laws of nature are no different now than they were 20 years ago.
Jäger
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Northern Arizona
I agree with applying the brakes more evenly as 'jabbing' them causes more heat due to increased friction. Here's a snip from the California Commercial Driver Handbook:
Proper Braking Technique
Remember: The use of brakes on a long and/ or steep downgrade is only a supplement to the braking effect of the engine. Once the vehicle is in the proper low gear, the following is a proper braking technique:
And the link: www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec2_a.htm#mou
Proper Braking Technique
Remember: The use of brakes on a long and/ or steep downgrade is only a supplement to the braking effect of the engine. Once the vehicle is in the proper low gear, the following is a proper braking technique:
- Apply the brakes just hard enough to feel a definite slowdown.
- When your speed has been reduced to approximately 5 mph below your “safe” speed, release the brakes. (This brake application should last for about three seconds.)
- When your speed has increased to your “safe” speed, repeat steps 1 and 2.
And the link: www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/cdl_htm/sec2_a.htm#mou
Elder User
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I guess the change could be due to the fact that most big rigs now have Jake Brakes which would also change the equation somewhat? You would accelerate slower using the Jake and not have to jab and release quite so often. And at some lower speed, the jake could do all the work and you wouldn't need the service brakes at all.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Windsor, Colorado
All I can say is going down steep hill with or with out a jake or exhaust brake the key is keeping everything at a safe speed. When I hauled cars I went thru CO on i70 alot, as well as all the other passes in the western US. Not having an exhaust brake the method of "jabbing" worked the best for me. Granted trying to go down the hill @55 or 60 that way is not going to work very well, but I usually go down no faster than I went up.
When I upgraded to a IH 4700 w/air brakes I tried using the method you guys are saying of trying to use light braking constantly. I will tell you it didnt work very well, I actually smoked my brakes on a fairly short grade. Therefore I stuck with the jabbing method.
When I upgraded to a IH 4700 w/air brakes I tried using the method you guys are saying of trying to use light braking constantly. I will tell you it didnt work very well, I actually smoked my brakes on a fairly short grade. Therefore I stuck with the jabbing method.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2006
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Originally Posted by kcb37
The jake brake should work like cruse control. Above a certain rpm off the gas it will operate. Below that rpm or on the gas it should diengauge. If not something is not right.
Jäger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,491
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From: Northern Arizona
For example, if your “safe” speed is 40 mph, you would not apply the brakes until your speed reaches 40 mph. You now apply the brakes hard enough to gradually reduce your speed to 35 mph and then release the brakes. Repeat this as often as necessary until you have reached the end of the downgrade.
By 'jabbing' I take that to mean people are really jumping on the brake pedal, basically emergency braking, to slow down quickly and dramatically instead of firmly braking.