Expedition Towing?
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2007
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Chuck's right about needing gauges. I just got my Dashawk yesterday and can now see tranny temps, but won't be driving it until tomorrow (not towing). I'll be towing my TT to San Diego in < 2 weeks and I'll log some data as I'm going up the long steep desert hills.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Near the Chesapeake Bay
Originally Posted by montecarlo31
Yes I am well aware of GVW, GCVW, and Axles weights but what I want to know is if anyone is towing and having problems, I don't see many people towing over 5K lbs with these. It is all a theory game in my opinion, a great example is your rig, longer wheelbase and more weight means you should be able to tow more then a standard expedition but because they limit you to a 15K lb weight combined, you are rated to tow less even though it is a more stable rig. People read way too much into what companies say instead of real world experiences.
What type of TT are towing? How much square footage does the unit have? Dual axles or tripples? Just wondering as all of these questions factor into how much weight you can tow.
Thanks in advance
What type of TT are towing? How much square footage does the unit have? Dual axles or tripples? Just wondering as all of these questions factor into how much weight you can tow.
Thanks in advance
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Joined: May 2006
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From: Near the Chesapeake Bay
Originally Posted by 07EXPYEL
Chuck's right about needing gauges. I just got my Dashawk yesterday and can now see tranny temps, but won't be driving it until tomorrow (not towing). I'll be towing my TT to San Diego in < 2 weeks and I'll log some data as I'm going up the long steep desert hills.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
07EXPYEL, can you get engine oil temp on that Dashhawk yet? If so, what are the trans and engine oil temps during a medium to heavy tow? Thanks, Rich
Senior User
Joined: May 2006
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From: Near the Chesapeake Bay
Originally Posted by 07EXPYEL
Chuck's right about needing gauges. I just got my Dashawk yesterday and can now see tranny temps, but won't be driving it until tomorrow (not towing). I'll be towing my TT to San Diego in < 2 weeks and I'll log some data as I'm going up the long steep desert hills.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
I don't think anyone should exceed the tow rating or GCVW ever, because if you get in an accident especially a fatal accident you can be found criminaly liable for excessive weight.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2007
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While the towing limits do take into account the load on transmissions the tow limit drop for EL and/or 4X4 are purely the added weight these options add not an indication of any weakness in the trans (its the same I think for the std and EL). For my Explorer I am supposed to deduct 500 lbs for the rear ht/ac for the weight that these add while still staying within the vehicle's GVWR. Heat is the killer of trans and not only the load but how we drive affects the heat generated by the trans.
Originally Posted by rich93cw
The towing limits are also about the torque load on the transmission, and not just the limits on the tires, axles, wheel base, hitch to axle base, and etc. That is why you see the tow limit drop for adding 4x4, and dropping again for EL
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From: Near the Chesapeake Bay
Originally Posted by rowekmr
While the towing limits do take into account the load on transmissions the tow limit drop for EL and/or 4X4 are purely the added weight these options add not an indication of any weakness in the trans (its the same I think for the std and EL). For my Explorer I am supposed to deduct 500 lbs for the rear ht/ac for the weight that these add while still staying within the vehicle's GVWR. Heat is the killer of trans and not only the load but how we drive affects the heat generated by the trans.
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The New 2008 Ford Towing Guide shows BOTH the
4x2 & 4x4 (Non-EL) Standard 3.31 Axle with HD Tow Option as the ONLY
Expedition with 9,200 lbs Tow Capacity
With 3.73 Option (Non-EL) Tow Capacity is ONLY 9,050lbs for 4x4
EL's are only rated for 9,000lbs (4x2) & 8,750lbs (4x4)
Why does the 3.73 lower the tow capacity 150lbs?
4x2 & 4x4 (Non-EL) Standard 3.31 Axle with HD Tow Option as the ONLY
Expedition with 9,200 lbs Tow Capacity
With 3.73 Option (Non-EL) Tow Capacity is ONLY 9,050lbs for 4x4
EL's are only rated for 9,000lbs (4x2) & 8,750lbs (4x4)
Why does the 3.73 lower the tow capacity 150lbs?
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Originally Posted by rich93cw
07EXPYEL, can you get engine oil temp on that Dashhawk yet? If so, what are the trans and engine oil temps during a medium to heavy tow? Thanks, Rich
Senior User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 125
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From: Near the Chesapeake Bay
Originally Posted by SemperFiDevilDog
The New 2008 Ford Towing Guide shows BOTH the
4x2 & 4x4 (Non-EL) Standard 3.31 Axle with HD Tow Option as the ONLY
Expedition with 9,200 lbs Tow Capacity
With 3.73 Option (Non-EL) Tow Capacity is ONLY 9,050lbs for 4x4
EL's are only rated for 9,000lbs (4x2) & 8,750lbs (4x4)
Why does the 3.73 lower the tow capacity 150lbs?
4x2 & 4x4 (Non-EL) Standard 3.31 Axle with HD Tow Option as the ONLY
Expedition with 9,200 lbs Tow Capacity
With 3.73 Option (Non-EL) Tow Capacity is ONLY 9,050lbs for 4x4
EL's are only rated for 9,000lbs (4x2) & 8,750lbs (4x4)
Why does the 3.73 lower the tow capacity 150lbs?
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 512
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From: Broadview Hts, Ohio
I'm seeing cylinder heat temperatures a couple of degrees higher than engine coolant.
Aeroforce notes Engine Oil Temperature is "not widely supported on Ford's," so you may not see it on your Dash Hawk Here's what the Interceptor lists, but I think there are a few more in the gage menu..
Aeroforce notes Engine Oil Temperature is "not widely supported on Ford's," so you may not see it on your Dash Hawk Here's what the Interceptor lists, but I think there are a few more in the gage menu..
A1C- Ford Supported Parameters (PID’S)
1. INTAKE AIR- Intake Air Temperature
2. INTAKE AIR TEMP. 2 (intercooled applications)
3. COOLANT TEMP- Engine Coolant Temperature
4. TRANS TEMP 1- Transmission Temperature (gas powered automatics)
5. TRANS TEMP 2- Transmission Temperature. Can be used if Trans Temp 1 is not
supported.
6. RPM- engine Revolutions Per Minute
7. MAF SENSOR LB/M- Mass Air Flow (lbs/min)
8. MAF COUNTS- Mass Air Flow sensor raw output in counts
9. FUEL LEVEL – 0-100 %
10. MANIFOLD PSI- Manifold Air Pressure (psi)
11. THROTTLE POS PCT- Throttle Position percentage (0-100%). Will typically read
around 10-90%.
12. PEDAL POSITION – Similar to Throttle pos. but is rescaled to read the full 0-100
range.
13. MILES PER HOUR- Miles Per Hour
14. KNOCK RETARD- Knock Retard (degrees) 4.6L 4v non-SC’ed
15. IGNITION ADVANCE- ignition timing advance
16. SHORT TRIM B1-short term fuel trim bank#1
17. SHORT TRIM B2-short term fuel trim bank#2
18. LONG TRIM B1-long term fuel trim bank#1
19. LONG TRIM B2-long term fuel trim bank#2
20. OXYGEN SENSOR B1-O2 bank 1 sensor in millivolts
21. OXYGEN SENSOR B2-O2 bank 2 sensor in millivolts
22. BATTERY VOLTAGE- Alternator/battery output voltage
23. ENGINE LOAD-calculated Engine Load (0-100%)
24. FUEL PRESSURE
25. FUEL PUMP DUTY CYCLE
26. CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE
27. OIL TEMPERATURE – not widely supported on Fords. <------
28. Calculated Engine Torque (Auto trans)
29. Transmission Slip (Auto trans)
30. Miles Per Gallon – instantaneous fuel economy
31. Calculated net horsepower
32. FUEL STATUS – Displays “Open” or “Closed” to indicate open or closed loop
fueling.
32. Analog 1 – analog input #1
33. Analog 2 – analog input #2
Note that parameters ending in “ps” on the gauge setup screen (not shown on this list) are
for Power Stroke diesel only.
1. INTAKE AIR- Intake Air Temperature
2. INTAKE AIR TEMP. 2 (intercooled applications)
3. COOLANT TEMP- Engine Coolant Temperature
4. TRANS TEMP 1- Transmission Temperature (gas powered automatics)
5. TRANS TEMP 2- Transmission Temperature. Can be used if Trans Temp 1 is not
supported.
6. RPM- engine Revolutions Per Minute
7. MAF SENSOR LB/M- Mass Air Flow (lbs/min)
8. MAF COUNTS- Mass Air Flow sensor raw output in counts
9. FUEL LEVEL – 0-100 %
10. MANIFOLD PSI- Manifold Air Pressure (psi)
11. THROTTLE POS PCT- Throttle Position percentage (0-100%). Will typically read
around 10-90%.
12. PEDAL POSITION – Similar to Throttle pos. but is rescaled to read the full 0-100
range.
13. MILES PER HOUR- Miles Per Hour
14. KNOCK RETARD- Knock Retard (degrees) 4.6L 4v non-SC’ed
15. IGNITION ADVANCE- ignition timing advance
16. SHORT TRIM B1-short term fuel trim bank#1
17. SHORT TRIM B2-short term fuel trim bank#2
18. LONG TRIM B1-long term fuel trim bank#1
19. LONG TRIM B2-long term fuel trim bank#2
20. OXYGEN SENSOR B1-O2 bank 1 sensor in millivolts
21. OXYGEN SENSOR B2-O2 bank 2 sensor in millivolts
22. BATTERY VOLTAGE- Alternator/battery output voltage
23. ENGINE LOAD-calculated Engine Load (0-100%)
24. FUEL PRESSURE
25. FUEL PUMP DUTY CYCLE
26. CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE
27. OIL TEMPERATURE – not widely supported on Fords. <------
28. Calculated Engine Torque (Auto trans)
29. Transmission Slip (Auto trans)
30. Miles Per Gallon – instantaneous fuel economy
31. Calculated net horsepower
32. FUEL STATUS – Displays “Open” or “Closed” to indicate open or closed loop
fueling.
32. Analog 1 – analog input #1
33. Analog 2 – analog input #2
Note that parameters ending in “ps” on the gauge setup screen (not shown on this list) are
for Power Stroke diesel only.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 597
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Thanks for pointing that out. I looked at the 2008 towing guide and I have never seen a factory rating be less for the vehicle with the lower (numerical) gear ratio on identical vehicles [3.73 vs 3.31]. NOrmally its the opposite and even for vehicles that weigh a little more because of options the steeper geared vehicle is usually rated to pull more. I have looked at the other vehicle ratings for 2008, 2007 and 2006 and that seems to be the standard except for the Expedition. I would be hard pressed to choose a lower gear vehicle to pull more unless the trans had different ratios as in the case of my begone 98 Exp 5.0 with a 3.73 rated to pull 6,600 vs my 06 Exp 4.6 with the 3.55 rated for 7,130 that actually does pull my boat better because of the benefit of the 6 sp trans vs the 4 spd it replaced. But I must admit the 98 had a little more off the line torque from the engine and the steeper gears but the added gears of the trans and higher revving engine offset that once it gets going.
Originally Posted by rich93cw
The limiting factor is the GCWR of 15,000 pounds, not axle ratio. Apparently, the vehicles with the 3.73 weigh about 150 pounds more than the 3.31 vehicles. Thus, they are limited by the GCRW rating, to tow capacity that is 150 pounds less.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 40,024
Likes: 1,519
From: Maine, Virginia
If you pull more than the manufacturer recommends then your asking for trouble. I wouldn't be caught dead pulling 10k with any 1/2 ton chassis that any manufacturer built. The brakes, suspension and most importantly, the tranny aren't rated for it.
Furthermore, I don't believe that a new Expy with the 5.4L and 6spd pulled a 10.5K trailor through the mountains just fine. It pulled the trailor indeed but the truck simply got it's a$$ kicked. I would have had the transmission flushed directly after that abuse.
An F-250 with the 5.4L is only rated at around 11K and this truck has a heavier duty tranny, brakes and suspension package.
Tim
Furthermore, I don't believe that a new Expy with the 5.4L and 6spd pulled a 10.5K trailor through the mountains just fine. It pulled the trailor indeed but the truck simply got it's a$$ kicked. I would have had the transmission flushed directly after that abuse.
An F-250 with the 5.4L is only rated at around 11K and this truck has a heavier duty tranny, brakes and suspension package.
Tim
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Originally Posted by tseekins
I wouldn't be caught dead pulling 10k
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Originally Posted by mnmwhit
I pull a trailer that is heavier than the tow rating and mine seems to do ok. I do wish FMC would beef the EXPY up and make a 3/4 ton version. And put a diesel on the option list.
No disrespect intended, but your wish list was the Excursion, which apparently didn't appeal to a wide enough market to keep it around.