When I take my 410 block in to be machined,whats your best advice for me such as,oiling problems, ect.,so if the machine shop isn't familar with this motor,this has happend to me before Thanks, Farmer

 

Do a search on "oiling mods" on the search engine here. You will find several references to modifying the oiling system.

 

After the search read throught the list. As you will see most if not all of the mods can be done by the shade tree mechanic. I would do all that you feel comfortable with to keep costs down, and to help get the shavings produced out befoe hot tanking. When you do take it to your machinist print a list of the oiling mods and check off the ones you have already done. Ask him to double check them and do any you didn't feel comfortable. Good luck on the build up.

scotty

 

Do the oiling mods yourself. They are easy, and getting those drill shavings out afterward is a real PITA. My machine shop did the restriction in the down shoot for number 5 main and it was full of shavings. I guess he did the work after installing the cam bearings. 7/16 is plenty for all the large galleries and your engine may already be there. Please post back with any questions. I am curious about the compression ratio and the pistons you will use.
William in Atlanta

 

I'm leaning towards 9:1 ratio,I installed this motor in my 71 F-100 acouple of years ago and have always had problem with pump gas,pinging, every time I would get on it,the Silvolite 1139 sound about right?what about main,rod bearings?any ideas on these.

 

Farmer,
I strongly recommend that you slow down a little and take some time to do the math on your piston choice and match with other components. If you have looked at any of the threads on the trials and tribulations that I went thru on my 410, it hasn't been fun, and damnably expensive! The Silvolite 1139 will give you about 10:1 on your CR. That, as I found out the hard way, is really outside the envelope for a working truck engine. I tried everything possible to get rid of the detonation, but finally gave up and replaced the 1139's with some custom Ross pistons to get down to 9.0:1. It's a good thing I did too, as when I pulled the engine apart, I found broken rings. I suspect that your broken #5 piston might be related to detonation also?!? Silvolite's site at www.kb-silvolite.com has a calculator section so you can play around with the various components to see what you will end up with, specifically CR.
Long and short of it, take some advice from a real chump who has gotten burned badly on his 410, and do your homework before you get too far into yours. The 3.98 stoke makes a great runner, but there are some aspects that you need to pay very close attention to. If you want any more specifics of what I've been thru, let me know.
Steve

 

Cleavite or Federal Mogul for bearings and Felpro for gaskets. ARP for fasteners. Check out www.jegs.com for lots of discount parts. Look at www.kb-silvolite.com for info and specifications on the pistons. That rattle noise under acceleration is what busted the piston. In a truck 10 to 1 is to much unless you run high octane and back off the timing a tad. Sometimes larger main jets help (richer mixture). I'll bet that old F100 really hauled! Post back and tell us what you think.
William in Atlanta

 

william,you don't know how refreshing it is to me,that before I make some huge mistakes, someone like you will take the time to help me out.I've been told by so many people that I should give up this boat anchor and just buy a 390,these same people want too know if this motor is for sale,Ha!they have just gotten my desire to build A better motor then there 390's.I would really like all your input on the best,and right parts for me to buy,as I've said,this motor only has 40 to 50 thousand origanal miles on it,I'm planning on starting on the bottom and working my way up,the machine shop will be able to tell me if it needs to be bored?I really don't think it needs it,the walls look like there brand new,thanks for the web sites,I'll do some checking on the pistons,and once again,appreciate all your input Farmer

 

Steve,

Could you explain your CR figure of 10:1 with the 1139 pistons? I too have these pistons and was told by my machinist that they are "standard" truck pistons giving 8.5:1 CR. The Silvolite site states 8.2:1 CR. Did you have additional machine work performed to reach 10:1?

BTW my truck runs fine without "pinging" on low octane pump gas while pulling my heavy RV so now I'm confused.

Thanks,
Lee

 

Steve has direct experience with the 410 in a truck. His experience was not good due to to high compression ratio and you have already had a bad experience caused by (most likely) the same problem. DF recommends the Silvolite 1139s for a compression ratio of around 9.5 to 1. He has much experience with this stuff and I use his advice for pistons and such all the time. So with that said: Here goes the formula for a 410 (TRUCK) on pump gas 87 octane. 4.05 bore, 3.948 stroke, 76 cc aluminum heads (Edelbrock), Edelbrock performer intake or a Blue Thunder with MR ports. 650 CFM carburetor (you pick). Crane 343901 Hydraulic flat tappet camshaft and Cloyes true roller timing chain. Ceramic coated shorty headers through true dual exhaust with a crossover pipe or Dr. Gas X pipe and free flowing exhaust. Melling high volume oil pump, ARP fasteners (rods, mains, heads and engine set). I like studs and would use them on the aluminum heads. Include new adjustable rocker assemblies and new pushrods. I like moly rings because they don’t wear the block. Stock fuel and water pump. Install screw in oil gallery plugs and brass expansion plugs. Set the cam bearings at 2”oclock. This plan is a truck engine. Open headers and 72 cc heads with a bigger cam would be a car engine. Budget 2500.00 for block, crank , pistons, rings, bearings, timing chain, camshaft, lifters, oil pump and ARP drive, and gaskets. Heads are around 1300.00 and add 600.00 for the intake and carburetor. Headers can be pricey and the X pipe and muffler will be around 300.00. So we are bumping up aganst 5 grand. I believe using the Felpro gaskets (the thick ones) and a set of aluminum heads with 76 cc chambers should work. The lower cost of the 1139s and not rebuilding the iron heads will offset the cost of the Ebock cylinder heads. These heads are a really nice piece and come ready to go. Aluminum heads tend to reduce detonation. If we have anyone that can do the math to check the exact compression ratio please join in.
William in Atlanta

 

>After the search read throught the list. As you will see
>most if not all of the mods can be done by the shade tree
>mechanic. I would do all that you feel comfortable with to
>keep costs down, and to help get the shavings produced out
>befoe hot tanking. When you do take it to your machinist
>print a list of the oiling mods and check off the ones you
>have already done. Ask him to double check them and do any
>you didn't feel comfortable. Good luck on the build up.
>
>scotty

Hi Scotty.

I was intrigued by your comment that these mods can be done by a shade tree mechanic. I had assumed all along that you would need special equipment to do these mods. Having never actually drilled on an engine block before, I have some questions, if you don't mind.

So I can get some drill bits for metal, and a hand drill, and do these mods? I would assume that I need some oil to keep the temps down and things lubed while I drill? I assume I need to be super careful about holding the drill straight, and not drilling too far. Actually, is there a way to tell how far to drill? Am I understanding correctly that all these mods start in holes that already exist and I'm not actually having to line up on some mark on the outside of the block?

I know these questions are rudimentary for you folks, and may seem stupid, but I gotta start somewhere..
Thanks!

 

No such thing as a stupid question. The answer to all your questions is yes. The expensive part is the extra long 7/16th drill bit for the center oil gallery but these are available. If a 3/8 th wooden dowel will pass through this gallery you probibly don't need to drill it. The most difficult is the start hole at 5/8th at the oil pump mount. You will need a drill with the small diameter shank that will fit in a hand drill. You will need a ball grinder to smooth the steps created by drilling the pump to the filter passage. Cast Iron drills and grinds like butter. In fact it is easy to over do this.
William in Atlanta

 

Lee,
I plugged the following numbers into the kb-silvolite CR calculator section, and got similar results on the Ross Pistons site:
Cylinder Head Volume 76 CC (Edel 427 heads)
Piston Head Volume 9.5 CC (Silvo 1139's)
Gasket Thickness .041" (Fel-Pro 1020's)
Gasket Bore Dia. 4.4" (Fel-Pro 1020's)
Cylinder Bore 4.09"
Deck Clearance .005" (decked block to achieve reasonable quench value)
Stroke 3.98"
These will give you a CR of 9.856 according to Silvo site. I "fudged it" to 10:1 just to make the point that you are playing with fire if you don't get your ducks in order. The cranking cylinder pressure was about 185#, which pretty well corroborates that value. I ran premium fuel, blocked the exhaust crossover in the intake (Performer), ran extra rich according to a Stoich meter, retarded the dizzy curve grossly, and still had detonation. One thing that I had working against me in particular was that the Crane 343941 cam isn't "big" enough to lose some pressure, but I use the truck for rock-crawling as well as hauling the camper, besides running a GearVendors OD, so didn't feel I could give up too much low-end.
Anyhoooo, that's how it was. I just got the engine back in my truck and watered and oiled this afternoon with the Ross 22 cc pistons, so now we'll see how that works if I can get him to fire off tomorrow! It's been an education.
Steve

 

Steve! What happened? I am really curious as too how this engine runs and performs.
William in Atlanta