6.4L whipped by Cummins and Duramax!
#61
09-04-2007, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aldridgec
I think ford was smart to get out of the Power Wars a few years ago with the 05 Superduty. It was getting ridiculous. Just to say it had the Most power in its class. For a few years they were only beating each other by a few ponies anyway. They moved to being able to EFFECTIVELY and MOST EFFICIENTLY use the truck to it's full capacity. Towing numbers far exceeded the competition. The Tow Boss pkg was great. We all know how easy it is to up the power on a diesel, and both Ford and GM (prob Chrysler) detune their diesels for heavier trucks. I wouldn't be too worried about the hp/tq peaks.
The T/S Trans In all reality CAN operate in 6 gears. http://atsg.biz/articles/html/Ford%205R110W%20Torqshift/Ford%205R110W%20Torqshift.htm. Debateable whether the ability to split gear ratio's or have a .61 2OD Allison would be more beneficial to economy. Especially since the PS makes peak TQ a little higher than the Dmax. I believe it is Ford's/IH's implementation of the new emissions restrictions that led to poorer mileage, not the drivetrain. I would also wager that the Ford is heavier than the others, but don't feel like looking it up right now.
If I'm buying a Vette, then I would care if it had the most power of any production vehicle out there. That is all it has to offer. I buy a truck b/c it can tow, haul, carry, look good, and get me through anything I can throw at it.
And looks do play a BIG part in a vehicle's sales. The new SD is hit or miss guys. Sorry. I don't care for it personally. Certain configurations I find down right ugly. An example of this is the Success of the new Mustang vs. the Demise of the GTO (ultimately canned b/c of airbag regulations, but just a nail in the coffin). No matter how much power the GTO came with, the sales were lackluster. Why? B/C it looked like a Cavalier. Period. The Mustang hit the styling nail on the head with a pile driver. 60 to 70 percent of Mustang's AREN'T V8's anyways. Consumers buy it for looks, comfort and fun.
Believe it or not, my T/A is the same in the looks dept. Love or Hate. I love it. Lot's of people hate it. Styling IS very subjective, but you can get close to pleasing Most of the people ALL of the time.
As you can see by this thread, not everyone has the same pulse, so any manufacturer has their subjective work cut out for them.
The T/S Trans In all reality CAN operate in 6 gears. http://atsg.biz/articles/html/Ford%205R110W%20Torqshift/Ford%205R110W%20Torqshift.htm. Debateable whether the ability to split gear ratio's or have a .61 2OD Allison would be more beneficial to economy. Especially since the PS makes peak TQ a little higher than the Dmax. I believe it is Ford's/IH's implementation of the new emissions restrictions that led to poorer mileage, not the drivetrain. I would also wager that the Ford is heavier than the others, but don't feel like looking it up right now.
If I'm buying a Vette, then I would care if it had the most power of any production vehicle out there. That is all it has to offer. I buy a truck b/c it can tow, haul, carry, look good, and get me through anything I can throw at it.
And looks do play a BIG part in a vehicle's sales. The new SD is hit or miss guys. Sorry. I don't care for it personally. Certain configurations I find down right ugly. An example of this is the Success of the new Mustang vs. the Demise of the GTO (ultimately canned b/c of airbag regulations, but just a nail in the coffin). No matter how much power the GTO came with, the sales were lackluster. Why? B/C it looked like a Cavalier. Period. The Mustang hit the styling nail on the head with a pile driver. 60 to 70 percent of Mustang's AREN'T V8's anyways. Consumers buy it for looks, comfort and fun.
Believe it or not, my T/A is the same in the looks dept. Love or Hate. I love it. Lot's of people hate it. Styling IS very subjective, but you can get close to pleasing Most of the people ALL of the time.
As you can see by this thread, not everyone has the same pulse, so any manufacturer has their subjective work cut out for them.
#62
09-04-2007, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by IHbase
Yep- not only does the '08 powertrain suck compared to the Dodge, but Ford also comes in dead-***-last in terms of looks. So you can take heart in not only does the truck suck, it is also super ugly.
The Dodge and Sterling cab & chassis trucks are going to eat Ford's lunch in the commerical market.
Now Ford has a choice. The company can either shake things up (dump all management realted to the family) or it can go out of business. But right now the "new" truck has a "nice" interior and nothing else over the competition.
Make no mistake, I love my '07 F350. But in terms of 08 trucks, it would be hard for me to stay with Ford.
As for the magizine article, I look forward to reading it. I hope they give Ford credit for the best frame and best axles. But best fit and finish? Looking at my truck, I find that hard to believe... And this magizine "tests" trucks by driving around with 400lbs in the bed... so I am inclined to discount their opinion.
On an unrelated note, I broke 20 MPG for the first time on any truck with my 07 last month. I was impressed.
-Mike
The Dodge and Sterling cab & chassis trucks are going to eat Ford's lunch in the commerical market.
Now Ford has a choice. The company can either shake things up (dump all management realted to the family) or it can go out of business. But right now the "new" truck has a "nice" interior and nothing else over the competition.
Make no mistake, I love my '07 F350. But in terms of 08 trucks, it would be hard for me to stay with Ford.
As for the magizine article, I look forward to reading it. I hope they give Ford credit for the best frame and best axles. But best fit and finish? Looking at my truck, I find that hard to believe... And this magizine "tests" trucks by driving around with 400lbs in the bed... so I am inclined to discount their opinion.
On an unrelated note, I broke 20 MPG for the first time on any truck with my 07 last month. I was impressed.
-Mike
Bye!
#63
09-05-2007, 08:14 PM
Ford Still On Top
I don't take to heart everything they print in the mags. I used to be a diehard Chey Man, until I was towed 3 times and decided to switch to Ford. Dodge did not even come into play because when you buy a crew cab you can only get a short bed. Who needs a short bed work truck? My buddies with Dodges can't keep a transmission in them.
I switched to Ford and have found them to be the best work trucks to buy.
I own a 2005 F-350 King Ranch Crew Cab 4x4 DWR with 100,196 miles on it.
My next truck will be a Ford.
I switched to Ford and have found them to be the best work trucks to buy.
I own a 2005 F-350 King Ranch Crew Cab 4x4 DWR with 100,196 miles on it.
My next truck will be a Ford.
#64
09-05-2007, 09:48 PM
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Very interesting posts.
All I can add is that I don,t dislike any other make of truck. I LOVE my Fords. From a very poor 6.9(86) a great 89 F350 460 CI and couple of F 150's and 2 V10's. Now drive a 2005 F350 SD CC LB DRW Lariat with a new 2008 waiting for Nov. delivery. With the exception of the 86 I don't think the total time these trucks were laid up at the dealers was more that 2 weeks.Not bad for 21 years of trucking. I have had the same dealer all those years.
I guess I don't really care if Chev and Dodge beat the Ford by a second or 2.
I love the fact that when I pull into a campground I see 50-60% of 5ver pullers are Ford SD's. I guess most of them don't care either. We buy them because they look good, drive good, pull good, and feel good.
Cant wait to get my new one.
Y'all enjoy the best darn truck on the market. Remember if they pass you on the bottom of the hill you will pass them on the top.LOL
All I can add is that I don,t dislike any other make of truck. I LOVE my Fords. From a very poor 6.9(86) a great 89 F350 460 CI and couple of F 150's and 2 V10's. Now drive a 2005 F350 SD CC LB DRW Lariat with a new 2008 waiting for Nov. delivery. With the exception of the 86 I don't think the total time these trucks were laid up at the dealers was more that 2 weeks.Not bad for 21 years of trucking. I have had the same dealer all those years.
I guess I don't really care if Chev and Dodge beat the Ford by a second or 2.
I love the fact that when I pull into a campground I see 50-60% of 5ver pullers are Ford SD's. I guess most of them don't care either. We buy them because they look good, drive good, pull good, and feel good.
Cant wait to get my new one.
Y'all enjoy the best darn truck on the market. Remember if they pass you on the bottom of the hill you will pass them on the top.LOL
#65
09-05-2007, 10:15 PM
#68
09-05-2007, 10:24 PM
I'm looking at the article (again) to try to find in which way it was slanted towards GM or Dodge (over Ford)......I just don't see it, and for what reason would DieselWorld magazine show such bias?........
The testing WAS primarily to find the best "tow" machine.....The engine numbers WERE fairly close (6.4 vs 6.6 vs 6.7)....but the article pointed out the fact that Ford was using a 5-spd vs the 6-spds that Dodge and Chevy were using (anyone really want to talk smack about the Allison tranny?......Probably the best heavy-duty tranny out there?......). The Ford advantages of "fit and finish" weren't enough to overcome the realized tq/hp and mpg shortcomings vs the other two. That avg 3mpg less than Chevy and Dodge adds up in the long term.
For those making comments about magazine testing and not trusting them, did you a) actually read the article and how they did the testing?....and b) would you still be saying this if Ford came in number 1?........
From: A proud owner of a 2000 4X4 psd F250.......
The testing WAS primarily to find the best "tow" machine.....The engine numbers WERE fairly close (6.4 vs 6.6 vs 6.7)....but the article pointed out the fact that Ford was using a 5-spd vs the 6-spds that Dodge and Chevy were using (anyone really want to talk smack about the Allison tranny?......Probably the best heavy-duty tranny out there?......). The Ford advantages of "fit and finish" weren't enough to overcome the realized tq/hp and mpg shortcomings vs the other two. That avg 3mpg less than Chevy and Dodge adds up in the long term.
For those making comments about magazine testing and not trusting them, did you a) actually read the article and how they did the testing?....and b) would you still be saying this if Ford came in number 1?........
From: A proud owner of a 2000 4X4 psd F250.......
#69
09-05-2007, 11:24 PM
One gentleman stated something very clear!!!! I live in an oil town/military town. The absolute truck of choice is the F-series truck. There are more 450s and 550s floating around here it is not funny. The personal trucks is a very hard toss up. I believe I see more Fords but over all there are as many Chevys/Dodges. Even for the boys going on the site to do welding, there are more Fords then any other truck. So far I love my F-350, and I get alot of compliments on it. I will post some pic soon.
#70
09-06-2007, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by cmpd1781
I'm looking at the article (again) to try to find in which way it was slanted towards GM or Dodge (over Ford)......I just don't see it, and for what reason would DieselWorld magazine show such bias?........
The testing WAS primarily to find the best "tow" machine.....The engine numbers WERE fairly close (6.4 vs 6.6 vs 6.7)....but the article pointed out the fact that Ford was using a 5-spd vs the 6-spds that Dodge and Chevy were using (anyone really want to talk smack about the Allison tranny?......Probably the best heavy-duty tranny out there?......). The Ford advantages of "fit and finish" weren't enough to overcome the realized tq/hp and mpg shortcomings vs the other two. That avg 3mpg less than Chevy and Dodge adds up in the long term.
For those making comments about magazine testing and not trusting them, did you a) actually read the article and how they did the testing?....and b) would you still be saying this if Ford came in number 1?........
From: A proud owner of a 2000 4X4 psd F250.......
The testing WAS primarily to find the best "tow" machine.....The engine numbers WERE fairly close (6.4 vs 6.6 vs 6.7)....but the article pointed out the fact that Ford was using a 5-spd vs the 6-spds that Dodge and Chevy were using (anyone really want to talk smack about the Allison tranny?......Probably the best heavy-duty tranny out there?......). The Ford advantages of "fit and finish" weren't enough to overcome the realized tq/hp and mpg shortcomings vs the other two. That avg 3mpg less than Chevy and Dodge adds up in the long term.
For those making comments about magazine testing and not trusting them, did you a) actually read the article and how they did the testing?....and b) would you still be saying this if Ford came in number 1?........
From: A proud owner of a 2000 4X4 psd F250.......
Having owned and towed with an '05 D/A (duramax/allison) for close to 2 years. It's not really anything against the trans, as I think the Ally is a robust trans, and I think the Torqshift is just as robust. It was the s/w that ran the Ally and seemed somewhat loosely coupled with the motor (in that the two didn't work that well together). This may be dated info, as I haven't driven one past that generation. However the PSD/TS works so much better as a combined powertrain than my '05 D/A did. A couple of examples: The tow/haul button is merely a suggestion on the D/A, where it is an immediately responded to command on the PSD/TS. I never could get the thing to reliably up shift out of t/h when say you hit a straight-away or downhill and just wanted to stop the lower gear engine braking. Other folks on the GM/Dmax board I hung out on had the same issue, in fact I remember that complaint on the next generation (LBZ) D/A too. The unforgiveable thing my D/A did was occasionally do a surprise upshift while in t/h -- this was with my foot nowhere near the accelerator, and a couple of times was outright dangerous in tight twisty downhill terrain while towing the horses (you jerk the crap out of them, not to mention scare it outa' you!). For me: the Ford is a better package in a lot more ways than just this one area...Yes I've read the article, and while I don't really care who they feel "won", I think they all three are capable tow rigs that generally won't get tapped by a number of the buyers that might read that article and chose based on it...
I also go to car and horse events regularly and the Ford is still the #1 tow rig you see out there -- maybe those folks just don't care either?
my $.02 worth...
#71
09-06-2007, 04:41 PM
Glad that was only .02 cents worth....I'd hate to see a dollars worth!
So you had an 05......... The GMC trucks have been completely re-designed since then and have a slightly different motor with more power and torque than in 05 so why would that comparison even be fair or in the ball park. My company truck is on 03 GMC and my personal is an 07, there is a huge difference between the 2.
Anyway just puzzled by how people are talking the new trucks and a 2005 gets thrown in??
So you had an 05......... The GMC trucks have been completely re-designed since then and have a slightly different motor with more power and torque than in 05 so why would that comparison even be fair or in the ball park. My company truck is on 03 GMC and my personal is an 07, there is a huge difference between the 2.
Anyway just puzzled by how people are talking the new trucks and a 2005 gets thrown in??
#72
09-06-2007, 05:51 PM
I responded to the comment that I read to be a general one, as I highlighted. The Ally is a very robust trans, so is the TS. The Ally wasn't redisigned for '07, was it?? I thought just the sixth speed was enabled starting with the LBZ... I thought my comments were relavent, since I was comparing a trans that always had a 6th speed (extra over drive) in it that just wasn't enabled and it's powerplant, to a 5 speed torqshift and it's powerplant.
Sorry you had your Ford problems, Scottman, but the D/A is just not all that, at least as far as I'm concerned. I'd rate them pretty much in reverse order than the mag did, and I'll go as far to say that's what the numbers of each that show up at the events I go to, would indicate their rating too...
Sorry you had your Ford problems, Scottman, but the D/A is just not all that, at least as far as I'm concerned. I'd rate them pretty much in reverse order than the mag did, and I'll go as far to say that's what the numbers of each that show up at the events I go to, would indicate their rating too...
#73
09-06-2007, 06:21 PM
I would agree DD your comments were on topic and relevant. Magazine ratings and articles have been discussed many times on this forum and every other one that I have been to. I am not sure what makes people think that the reviewers are unbiased. They have their bias's just like everybody else. Usually the article or rating is useful for toilet paper and that is about it, even when they agree with my opinion. I have found so many times that some reviewer agrees with my overall favorite but for entirely different reasons.
#74
09-06-2007, 07:16 PM
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As far as what the trucks are designed to do, Has anyone Towed with all 3 new ones with 15k or more??? 10.5k is considerably light for these trucks. If i wanted to only pull 10.5k which is more then i would honestly pull myself Uhhmmm yah i would stick with a used Diesel truck. i guess thats the reason i bought my 02 7.3 but i would like to know how all 3 compare with a sizable load on them.
#75
09-06-2007, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by kimminau2
I would agree DD your comments were on topic and relevant. Magazine ratings and articles have been discussed many times on this forum and every other one that I have been to. I am not sure what makes people think that the reviewers are unbiased. They have their bias's just like everybody else. Usually the article or rating is useful for toilet paper and that is about it, even when they agree with my opinion. I have found so many times that some reviewer agrees with my overall favorite but for entirely different reasons.
I'm not sure I'd disagree with your assertion that people have their biases, but can you point them out in the article?......When you are comparing hard numbers like average mpg (unloaded and towing), it's hard to interject your "bias" just because you like one make over the other. I'm not sure what makes people think that the reviewers are biased.
Pick up random issues of Diesel World (or for that matter, Diesel Power), and you'll find all makes (Chev, Dodge, Ford) being 'ooh-rah, ooh-rah-ed" to the max at one time or the other.