Alright Heres the deal...My 84' F-150 4x4 with a 351W likes to eat starters almost every four to five months...and its done this for the past three years (years that I've owned it)

In 2006 I blew the automatic transmission (C6) and did a conversion to a Standard Borg Warner T-18. Of course this means I had to change the following: Flywheel, blockplate, starter, bellhousing, brake/clutch pedal setup, and modify the steering column.

One should think that with a differnt starter type (yes there are two, one for stick and one for auto) that the problem should be resolved...apparently not.

I have shimed the starter....but when I did that something went arye because I ended up blowing the bellhousing apart.... >_< costing me about four bills for a new one.

Normally I wouldn't care about the starter having to be replaced but the local parts store just changed their warentee policy on starters....probably because of me...and they revised the Life Time warentee to a one time replacement.

So...I'd like to pick your brains for any useful information as to why my truck likes to eat starters.....

 

You have changed many starters out, what did they all look like? What was wrong with them? The same thing every time? What did they act like when they failed?

 

Do you have headers on the truck? The heat from the headers can cause problems

 

The starters look completely normal aside from a little bit of metal shaving on the input gear; though a few times the entire shaft of the starter has become dislodged and moves freely. The last two starters looked brand new when I pulled them out, but they did test bad. On once occasion the starter engauged on the highway with no help from me accidently turning the key, and for obvious reasons (such as wanting to get back home without a wrecker) I didn't shut the truck off.

The truck has exhaust...but not normal exhaust, the truck is more or less something like a farm type of truck so it has the bare minimum. Several months ago I thought it might be heat as the heat was melting my clutch line so I did get some header wrap and wrap up the manifolds and some of the Y-pipe.

 

Either a wrong plate or a wrong flywheel. Way back there was 2 auto flywheel sizes for a 289/302. I had the wrong one mated up (2 teeth different). It took a few months but it finally shattered the nose cone of the starter. You could see shavings from the teeth but it always started and disengaged.

Another odd fact....later manual transmissions used the auto starter (at least in the cars). What is the difference? The depth of the ring gear.

If I was you I would be counting the teeth on the ring gear and measuring the depth from the mounting plate to see if I had the correct starter/flywheel combo.

Good luck
Kenny

 

You can get clues to what is wrong by what happens to the starters. I heard shavings, and a broken shaft? How did the others test bad? What was wrong with them. If these are all different problems, then I am suspicious you are getting lousy starters.

 

Kenny,

when I swaped out my blown up automatic for a stick I made certain that I paid close attension to the flywheel setup with the starter, I have the correct ones; if my memory serves me correctly its a 164 tooth flywheel with the correct starter. I even tried an automatic starter out of neccesity because one night in New Hampshire the starter cooked itself and I had a good auomatic one in the toolbox...it made a horrible sound (like the teeth were too close) but it started the truck and got me to the parts store in the morning; the MT starters that I've been getting engauge correctly and the operation sounds very smooth....until my truck decides its hungry again...

__________________________________________________ __
Dave,

The starter that had the broken shaft was back when I had the automatic in there, the gear became seperated from the motor, as did the main shaft; but when power was put to it things did turn...just not connected of course...A few starters just tested all out bad...with power no movement what so ever. On two other starters the cast aluminum bottom bolt bracket snapped causing the starter not to engauge..(good motors still)..The last two starters just klonked out with no rhym or reason, In fact when I brought the alst one back it had been in there maybe three weeks and it was still shiney new (reman). I've been purchasing remanufactured starters because I like to keep my cost down and recycle autoparts when possible, Though I've been looking at some performance starters on Summit Racing but I'm not sure if I really need a 200$ starter for what I use the truck for....(pushing broken equipment around, haling lumber, plowing snow, and of course some very abusive off roading.)

Thanks.

Justin.

 

I would take a look at closer look at the flywheel, may be warped. Setup a dial gage and turn the engine over by hand, watching the run out.

Maybe use some putty on the starter gears and install it carefully not to get into the putty. Then turn the engine over with the crank and try to find out where its hitting.

 

You should be dealing with three areas for potential problems...

1) mechanical...bad bearing, misalignment, improper gears, etc. Sounds like you have that covered.

2) environmental...too much heat from surrounding exhaust system, exhaust leak cooking it or water/salt/mud causing corrosion & rusting problems. Sounds like you have that covered as well.

3) electrical....over or under voltage can have a bad effect on a starter over time. Obviously, overvoltage will fry it right away if too much, but I've gotten away with 24 volts to a 12 volt starter (and 12v to a 6v starter, for that matter) for a quick start with no immediate damage.

I don't know that undervoltage will wreck a starter from personal experience, but I have had some go bad for no apparent reason and the problem went away when I finally changed the Alt. (or Gen.), or the regulator, or the battery. And I have read that undervoltage can be the cause of starter problems.

I have seen batteries that will start an engine that have a bad cell and continually drain voltage from the system so that you never have 12+ volts to start with. Could be something up that alley to look at.

Hope you can find it.

 

Blue 68,

I thought that maybe the flywheel may have been damaged when the bellhousing exploded from either shimming the starter or something on the road hitting it....however when I dropped the trans to replace the bell I also disassembled the entire clutch (pressure plate, clutch disc, flywheel) I had the flywheel checked by a machine shop and they said it was good, no warps, burns, or cracks. However I will preform this later on today and perhaps see if something is misaligned by my error.

__________________________________________________

MuddyAxles,

You bring up an interesting idea...About a year ago my truck did have some serious electrical issues and after months of eating voltage regulators I finally gave up on trying to fix a wiring mess and brought it to the Ford Stealership, they banged me a few bucks and its been charging correctly at 14.2 ever since...The battery was replaced In january with an industrial Deka 900 Cold cranking amp superior batery. A few months ago what looked like the factory original altenator finally gave out and I replaced it with an aftermarket 75amp altenator, and of course it charges happily at 14.2 volts.

Now I gotta tell you gentlemen...I've owned six F-150's/250's ranging from 1982-1996 and I've never been so perplexed by this truck eating so many starters. Sure initially when you buy one you usually have to replace the altenator, and starter...and thats it....but this truck just always wants another starter....

 

i second electrical, check your wires for shorts and stuff, also have someone crank it (yank the coil wire off so it can crank for a wire) and see how hot everything gets, yes stuff should get hot but you should be able to hold onto the wires.

 

...but I do have another couple of questions:

1). When the starter is trashed and checked afterward, do you know if it is the motor windings or the contact points (can't remember the right name)/solenoid/bendix that is bad?

2). Have you done anything with the solenoid up on the fender that has the two heavy leads (battery to solenoid & solenoid to starter) and the one or two small wires (ignition & sometimes another)?

That is the only other component I can think of that might be bothering

 

Cody,

I had my brother turn the motor over with me under it for about thirty or so seconds, the wire going to the stater got warm but it didn't burn me, I did replace it when I put a new altenator in, along with all new battery terminals etc.
__________________________________________________ _____________
MuddyAxles,

The fender mounted solenoid was replaced but that was back when I first got the truck, it look alright, but as we all know with electrical items...it can look brand new and be bad...I think I have an extra one (new/reman) sitting around in my garage in my pile of extra ford parts. I'll toss it in and see if the starter last a little longer.

Heres an interesting tidbit; I went back to the parts store that changed their warentee policy and presented them with my original recipe for the lifetime warentee and of course the sales clerk made a stink but in the end the manager honored my warentee because I had the original recipe. Also the new starter they handed me has a larger thicker case...its about an inch longer, and the cast aluminum mounting bracket is thicker. I questioned them but they gave me a typical retail chain parts store answer "its the same part number". It starts the truck fine.....for now.....but we shall see in a week or two if things change.

 

I never trust reman starters or alternators. Low voltage will KILL a starter fast. The less voltage you pass to the starter the more amperage it needs to turn, amperage=heat, heat kills the windings and armature in a starter. If you're getting the remans from AutoZone that's the problem right there. Almost ALL of their electrical stuff is bad right out of the box. Advance is SLIGHTLY better, but I'd be using NEW NAPA parts or Carquest. These are the only two stores that I've NEVER received a bad part from.

 

I agree with pfogle. If you read the quote above, there is no consistency in how they failed. Some failed for this, others for that. If there was a certain problem with the truck, you would think they would all fail in the same manner.