Howdy,

I have no experience in building engines, but thought I would learn by trying to do something with a '76 460. I bought a couple timing sets, no retard, for '68 - '71, Comp Cams 3122. I take a look at the crank sprockets and the 0 setting looks like the cam alignment mark is retarded ~4* from the crand keyway, and is marked with 3130B. The crank sprocket position for 4* advanced looks straight. I look at the cam sprockets and they are cast with 3130A. 3130 happens to be the part number for the '72 - '87 smog retarded timing set.

I call Comp Cams help and am told that the crank sprocket for both the 3122 and 3130 sets is marked as 3130, the cam sprockets are different. I reply that the cam sprocket in my 3122 set is marked 3130, and he says that is correct. I ask what marking is on the 3130 cam sprocket, and he says he thinks it is 3125.

Am I being jerked around here?

Thanks,
Andy

 

just order a cloytes chain for a 70 460..

 

Yep, Cloyes is said to be the benchmark. Word around here is that the Comp Cams timing set is identical to the Cloyes. In fact the Comp Cams have the same part numbering, so I wouldn't be surprised if Comp Cams timing sets are manufactured by Cloyes and repackaged for Comp Cams.

What numbers are on the Cloyes 3122 timing set parts? Anyone want to comment on the alignment of the 0 mark with the crank keyway on the Cloyes set?

 

http://bfevansraceparts.com . You can get the 7 keyway frpp set from Lem Evans at a bargain. Always degree your camshaft to be sure. Your final cam timing is dependant on the accuracy of the camshaft pin and lobe grind , crankshaft key, and the quality of the timing gear manufacture. They are all made by people who can make mistakes that may be in spec, but if all 3 are a little off the right way it can be off bad.

 

1987 and later 460 EFI engines used the straight up gear sets and they are a roller chain style set. That is all I ever use on a stock 460. And ky mustang is correct if you really want it right you degree it in and then you use an adjustable gear set where you can compensate for manufacturing tolorences.

 

Well then, simply install the chain to your engine with the crank gear being installed in the straight-up position...which in your case sounds to be the 4* advance position (relative to that gear being the 72 & up is 0 = 4* retarded).

Degreeing is indeed a good idea with those timing sets.

Paul

 

If my memory serves me, all timing sets for stock applications are retarted. the only way to get a non retarded gears is to order aftermarket. I use a Cloyes TRUE street roller. It has a true 0 setting, with a 4 degree +/-. After 1971 Ford because of emissions retared there cams to meet. Today my partsman tells me if you buy a replacement set it comes retarded out of the box. Again if my memory serves me the 429 SC engines can stock advanced 4 degrees. That is where the great low end torque came from.

 

Not true.

Fuelie 460 timing chains are straight up, and 1968-1971 applicable timing chains are straight up.

And in fact Cloyes, your example, offer's a pre-72 and post 72 double roller chain (yes, their double roller performance chain is available both ways). This would mean that where the round marker is 0* on the pre-72 is actually 4* retard on the post-72 motors & post '72 style aftermarket chains, and the way to correct this is to install at the triangle (pointed keyway) in order to advance the cam back to 0* with the post '72 timing chain set.

More easlily stated: Whichever timing set you have, the mark directly above the keyway is the true 0* (pre-72) cam timing setting (unlike the other two marks on the gear which are slightly offset from their respective keyways) regardless of which chain set you have (pre or post 1972).

So select the keyway that has the icon directly above the keyway (not slightly offset to one side of the keyway or the other). Also, the peak of the tooth on the crank gear will also be in direct alignment with the keyway and the keyway marking that is directly above the keyway. THIS IS PRE-1972 STRAIGHT UP. To verify after installation, both cam and crank keys should be at preciesly 12 o'clock when #1 piston is set to TDC.

Paul

 

thanks Paul. someone should save that info..

 

1987 and up fuel injected factory timing chains are straight up you had better take a look at one before you say not true. I have and they are staright up. I have built many of these and they are straight up. I degreed them and they are staright up.

 

wtroger,

By your referring to the "not true" statement, I believe your post is in reply to my latest post. If you re-read what I posted, you will see that I made the same statement that you did. Never thought otherwise about the single roller fuelie chains and have known them to be straight up.

(My "not true" statement [in italics] is a reply to the quote directly above it.)

Paul

 

Sorry about that Paul Kane. But I see so much mis-info on this site at times that it is unbelieveable.

 

Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it.

Just like Cloyes, Comp Cams offers pre '72 and post '71 sets in true roller. They even use the same part numbers, 3122 and 3130. I bet Comp Cams are really Cloyes.

Anyway, I think the Comp Cams Help is not accurate. He says BOTH the pre '72 and post '71 crank sprockets are the same, and have the 0 offset from the keyway. He says the retard adjustment is accomplished in the cam sprocket.

Paul, you mention "both cam and crank keys should be at preciesly 12 o'clock when #1 piston is set to TDC". What is the cam key? Is it the pin?

Maybe I'll post a pic to show what it looks like.

Sounds like I won't know for sure until I degree the cam.

Andy

 

A friend of mine owns a CarQuest and races. He informed me sometime ago that pre 71 chain kits were the same as the newer ones. When I bought my Cloyes I didn't have a choice of pre or not. Anyway I glad you had the info he was looking for.

 

Alright, I took some pics of the Comp Cams 3122 timing set, it is supposed to be for EARLY 460s.

Orientation as directed by instructions for 0 alignment:


Orientation with crank at TDC and as directed by instructions for 0 alignment:


Anyone think this set is really going to be retarded if installed as instructed?