No Ford failed here. This GT500 was supposed to be the next Cobra like the ones before it, but they plastered Shelby's name all over it and the dealers want $10-$20K over MSRP for them.

It's puts the cost too high for the past Cobra owners and Mustang GT/Mach1 guys looking to upgrade, and the ones who can swing it see the performance to price ratio and compare it to other cars in the $67,000 price range and skip right over it for cars like the LS3 vette, etc.

It's not cheap or easy unless you leave it stock as a new crate motor. Get in to building it and, well, it'll cost you a lot.

I had a 5.4L DOHC project going based off the navigator 5.4L DOHC, Sullivan intake, for a turbo. I seen the light fast when it $10k in parts in my house and I still wasn't half way there. I sold it off, got the Explorer motor, and called it a day.

Never again will I try to make a slow car REAL fast. I'll buy a car that's already got a good base to build on - like a Chevy LS3 and go from there. If I have to forge the motor, boost it, run nitrous, to keep up with mild bolt on cars like a LS3 Z28, it's not worth it. I'd rather buy the LS3 Z28, buy the cheaper bolt ons, and run faster than the guys spending $10k trying to make their cars keep up.

It's all about who has the most performance for a value. I think that's what made the 87-93 Mustang 5.0L so nice. For its time, it was a decent performer and it was a value since modding it to make it fast wasn't too expensive. Ford has lost sight of this these days.

Like, it makes no sense to me why a FR500 heads, or 03/04 DOHC head sales for like $750 each, but the better flowing Ford GT/GT500/00R heads are like $3,000 a set. I know it doesn't cost Ford much more to produce the better flowing head over the old design. Everything they seem to have is at a high premium if it's worth half a d*mn performance wise it seems. :/


Awesome that you got to live and experience that era and this one. The Muscle cars days are back, and have been for a while now.

I'm proud of what "I've" done to make the car a decent performer. The car bone stock was a slug. A 15sec car in the 1/4 mile and 9.90's in the heat stock in the 1/8 mile. It was a NPI, 4r70w, with 3:27 option gear car stock.

I've taken it all the way from that, to 8.7's in the 1/8 and 13.5's in the 1/4. Two motors, three trans, and trial and error on the bolt ons. I found some parts to be junk, like UDP's. I removed them since they dragged the battery down way too much, etc.

Disclaimer: This post wasn't to ruffle any feathers or to be an insult to anyone or their opinions. I only wanted to share my angle on Fords past, present, and future engines. I hope that, in the end, we all get what we want and enjoy our Fords while they keep improving them. I am here posting this to encourage Ford to raise the bar with their engine program, and at least meet the bar with the competition out there.

Later,
John

 

The next Z28 will have the 410hp 6.0l

I should know, coz I have driven one... and I am a Ford person, but Ford better up the ante BIG time come the 09 Mustang - because this Camaro is one awesome car.
In terms of packaging, handling, ride, drivetrain and engine performance, it has the current mustang licked.
By a fair margin too...


I think its biggest downfall in the US market will be its styling.

 

The new Camaro, for the first time ever in my entire life, is appealing to me. I love the Mustang, but if Chevy comes through with the 6.0L in the base model Z28 performance & msrp wise, I just may buy my first Chevy. I'm tired of heavy slow cars that cost tons of money and lots of work (motor swaps from trucks) to make fast. LOL

So it will have the LS2?

http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/corvette/2007/ls2_engine_en.jsp

And for you oil *****, read it... 28mpg highway in a 6.0L 400hp/400tq car! C'mon Ford.... you can do it!

If not, I'm gonna be stuck in a chevy to get my muscle car fix.

Check out the goods on the Z06 7.0L 427!

http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/corvette/2007/ls7_engine_en.jsp

 

Oh yeah, it will have the 7.0l too... maybe in slightly higher power spec too

 

Agree !

I think when the price of gas went nuts a few years ago a lot of people sold their big trucks, but with in a year things settled down and people went back to what they had and what they wanted.

The price of gas has not stopped or limited my fun. I take my excursion and camper camping as much as I can. Sometimes 3-4 times a month. I have a 97 cobra mustang I drive very often. Only time I care about the price of gas is when I fill up my DD which is a ford focus.

The only thing I can disagree with is I think Ford should continue using a supercharger on some models. I like the fact that you can take a 99-04 Lightning or 03-04 Cobra and for a couple hundred dallors change out the blower pullies and retune the ECM and you can make a couple hundred more HP in an afternoon without even getting your hands dirty.

But at the same time I don't think that should be the norm. I think like you said the GT mustang should be standard with a 6.2L Boss maybe a 3v or something and make like 350-400 HP and make as many as they can freaking make. If its worth the time do a multi displacement thing like dodge has on the hemi. The hemi charger gets as good or better MPG as the V6 they put in it and has way more power.
I don't see why their can be the following:
Basic mustang 300 HP V6 (the japs can make a engine like that)
Mustang GT 400 HP 6.2L Boss engine
Cobra Mustang(non limited production) 450 HP supercharged
Mach 1, Boss, Bullit any other special edition(non limited production) Mustang 450 - 500 HP
and then if they want to do a limited production mustang like a GT500 or something do that above and beyond the rest.

Also Ford needs to stop the dealerships from marking up stuff like the GT500's and Cobra's and stuff. It hurts sales and rips off the customers. If it wasn't for the 25-30K mark up I would honestly buy a GT500 right now.

 

I've seen the show about the old muscle car engins. GREAT show!!

 

Yep 300 horses out of a six and 400 out of an eight...you are only missing one thing...A shovel to scoop your remains off the highway. As a former State trooper, I am always amazed how people crave more power when they can barely handle the power they have.

A mustang with 260 horses will run 140....Put 500 horses in it and it will be in the 200 MPH supercar catagory...Good luck insuring it!

By the way....Let's talk trucks.

 

I agree with you. People complain about the underpowered 5.4 in the F150, but I personally think it rocks. Mine will scoot and will do 50-70 passing on two-lane quick enough for me to get around with no issues. I guess I'm just a fuddy duddy.

 

This thread was about the Boss engine being seen in a drag racing circuit. It was in a new 05-07 body Mustang GT built by Roush. That said, step on over to the thousands of other truck related threads if this one bothers you.

On to power and insurance....

I bought my Mustang GT new in Oct 1996 when I was 19 years old. I'm now 31 and still own the same car. It's well taken care of for its age. My insurance is under $40 a month for it. I have a clean driving record which helps with that.

As for power, we're talking about sports cars (muscle cars) in here. We have cars that are in the same class much like F150's, 1500's = half ton class trucks. We got on the subject of future engines for the Mustang, and most all of us agree Ford should step up to the plate and put a real motor in these cars to compete with the other cars in its class and price range.

And your calculations on speed are pretty close. But you forget one detail - gearing. When my GT was stock, 215hp, 3500lbs give or take, 4r70w auto, and 3:27 gear, it would not really pull past 135mph. With a simple 3:73 gear change, the car would then pull OD in that high geared auto trans. I never got it to redline, but once I got it swept past 150. Actually, I got the speedo back around to the start of the mileage (about 6 o'clock) readout once. Of course this was on a closed course track. So if gearing and aerodynamics are on your side, you can go a lot faster than you think HP wise.

There are tons of powerful cars on the roads today. A lot didn't come that way stock. But nonetheless, you can't word muscle cars in to a lump as if no one can handle them and people die in them more than any other cause. I've seen plenty more car related fatalities that were in average every day cars (non-performance cars).

I am a great example of another performance car driver that has not crashed because I couldn't handle the HP I already have. I was 19 years old with a Mustang GT, modified it as soon as possible (when parts came out), but never had one accident in the car. By your statistics, I should have bee dead (young, fast car, etc), but here I am.

I think folks should worry more about the DUI drivers, and soccer moms' in 6500lb SUV's putting makeup on and talking on a cell phone than trying to say how much HP is enough in my car or the next guys.

FWIW, most of us buy these cars for the superior performance. We use them as daily drivers to get to work and look good. But on race day, we drive them to the track to compete in a sport (a motorsport). So don't try to tell us what we should and shouldn't have because you "think we can't handle the hp we have now."

Take a look around at how many fast cars are on the road. Even an infinity G35 sport is a "fast" car by yesterdays standards and even today's. It has 330hp, runs flat 14's in the heat, but looks like an ordinary Japanese luxury car.

I think the ratio of muscle car wrecks are way lower than stupid people driving economy cars anyway. We're more concerned about keeping our cars in tip top shape - looks wise and performance wise. I don't go pay out the butt for a GT and spend thousands in performance upgrades to just drive like a moron on the street and smash my investment.

 

i think i know the reason y the crash rate is lower. wonce we have pumped that much money into a car we would rather die than see it destroyed or wreck.

 

As long as there are cars, man will want more power and speed, it's the nature of the beast. I'm 48 and don't speed on the highway, however, you can bust some ones chops from light to light without going over the speed limit, Thats whay I love torque for loe speed excelleration. If some one chooses to speed, thats thier dumbnedd. If I want to go faster tham the speed limit will allow, we have several tracks in the area, from the road course at Nelson Ledges to the many local drag strips,
Around here the kids all think the japanese cars are the bomb as well, but respect the mustang because of it's heritage, they would have a stang if they could afford one, For all but a few japanese cars, they have to speed alot of money to keep up with a stock stang. I have beaten alot of cars in my day that I shouldn't have if compareig hp numbers. There's alot of factors that come into play, like weight, traction, gearing to name a few. My GT was an awesome value for what I got for the 26 grand spent. he mustang is a great car for the money. From what I'm hearing the new camero will not be cheap, or at least as cheap as a stang. Even so, ford is emplimenting the boss program to still give ford owners a level playing field. as for a 330 hp V-6, thats an exception not the rule for a V-6, but if ford needed a 340 hp V-6 to beat it, you would have it. As a matter of fact, keep your eyes peeled for the up and comming fusion svt. I don't know what all this hype is about, the new camero looks like box of smashed butt holes, the new stang is one of the best looking cars on the road. Between the 2, the new challenger is by far the better looking and more retro of the 2. I wouldn't hit a dog in the butt with a chevy now, or ever. Ford has done some great things with a small V-8, great power and good mpg, not a heavy polluter. I change my mind as well about a 5.4 swap. After talking to some folks in the new, they say the 4.6 is the way to go, work with it and you will be amazed. Also, you can run a pro charger on stock internails with a good tune at around 10 pounds of boost. If I put on a pro charger and did nothing else, I would have a 11 second car with a total of 31 grand invested. Lets see, 450 hp, 11 second for 31.000.00$, thats still agreat value as thats cheaper than the new camero will even start at. So for 31 grand I can run with or beat most cars out there or that are comming, "it's all good"!!!! Now for the new stang, they will run with the chevy's with a 5.0 and still won't match them cube for cube, but I'm sure will run with them if not over them. Not to mention some special edition stangs that could have the 7 liter, like a mach 1 or bullet, whatever they decide to call them. Don't worry, mustang will allways be a good value. My GT stickered for 31 as it had the CS package, but with rebate and ford X plan, I got it for 26, I'm very happy with what I have for the money spent, It was only a little more than an SRT-4 neon and cheaper than the evo or sti and a lot of other japanese crap.

 

Also in reply to the guy who said that the boss 351 was the best of the boss motors is right to a point. The 351 boss was awesome, but,,, he also said the boss 302 was short on cubes, totally wrong. The boss 302 was wicked in it's class and brought ford trans am championships. We must remember back at that time small blocks were quite prevelant as GM had a 302, 283, 327 and 350 and ford had the 289, 302 and 351, dodge the 340. My point being the boss 302 was hardly short on cubes as the small block class was quite large. I put a 1970 boss 302 create motor into a 1970 mavrick with 4 speed top loader and ford 9" with 4:11's, With lakewood traction bars and 60 series slicks on 15" rims. With no other mods to the motor than a set of headers, the car ran 12.90 in the 1/4 through the mufflers and full interior. The boss 302 was an awesome engine with 4 bolt mains, windage tray, dual point distributor, solid lifter cam 780 holley and those cleveland heads that you could stick your fist into the ports, that engine would scream. Ford brought it back this year as a create motor option, but with screw in freeze plugs and aluminum heads at a decent price. The standrd 302 bore will net you 345 hp and stroked versions up to 500 hp. That would be the ideal motor for a strip or small block road course car. It would even be a great option on a resto project for a stang, fairlane or falcon. Thats why the 351 cleveland was so great, was those nostrols they called heads that found thier way onto the boss 302.

 

Agree !

Same here. I have a 1997 Cobra and drive it with respect.

According to people like Nimrod's thinking they should stop making, Porsche's, Ferrari's, and Lamborghini's.

Best statement I have ever read:
"Don't try to tell us what we should and shouldn't have because you "think we can't handle the hp we have now." "

Sure people wreck performance cars. Sure a lot of people who drive them can't handel the power but I feels as though most muscle/performance car drivers can. How many mustang, cameros, ect are on the road and how many are involved in speed related crashes ?

Why do you care what I pay for insurance ? Maybe I can afford to insurance a 500 HP GT500.

I have read and it is a FACT per million miles traveled there are less accidents on Germany's autobon then there are on US highways. Drive slow doesn't make it any safer.

The Honda Accord has a 268 HP 3.5L V6, until the 05 mustangs Fords 4.6L V8 only had 260 HP, even the new 3v 4.6L V8 with 300 HP isn't much better. All I am saying is if honda can make that much power in a V6 why can't Ford ?

 

Don't forget wendell....the Boss 302 came about for the sole purpose of having a car to compete in trans-am racing which had a 5.0L displacement limit. The street cars were only built so that the engine would be allowed in the races. The Boss 302 was a great motor but needed to be revved to get the most out of it because of its racing intentions. I don't think a nascar nextel cup motor would be that much fun to drive on the street either since it is designed much like the Boss 302 to be driven at 6-9K rpms.

 

I agree, My 88 5.0 LX Mustang that I bought new in 88 has over 161,000 miles on it. It has never been wrecked. It runs 8.40's in the 1/8 mile and 7.90's on NOS. This was my daily driver for over 10 years. The engine is still stock with only Shorty headers, 2.5" off-road pipe, Flowmasters and 3.55 gears. I was 20 when I bought the car. It has been driven hard, but still runs and looks good. Never even been painted. Had never seen a garage until a few years ago.
Stupid drivers will wreck anything regardless of power. I also never wrecked my 71 Torino Gt with a 351CJ in it or my 69 440 6-Pack 4-speed Road Runner or even the 71 Camaro RS that I had that ran 6.05 in the 1/8 mile that I drove daily on the street unless it was cold or raining. No wipers or heat