As I digress... Unfortunately ethanol is not hurting the middle east. We burn all kinds of oil to farm the corn that makes the stuff not to mention gas when making the power to supply the ethanol plants with electricity. The process is actually only marginally accretive on an energy basis (i.e. energy used to energy value produced). The best part is that the entire industry would collapse overnight if the tax subsidies on ethanol were discontinued by the federal government. Which brings us the next point - corn ethanol is a direct result of agricultural lobbyists greasing wheels in Washington D.C. Now here is the truly sad part; as we all know the cost of corn as nearly doubled in the past two years given the growth in the ethanol industry. We may not see this effect close to home but it makes feed more expensive for our livestock and now I can only buy 3 ears for a buck at the grocery store instead of 10 like I used to a few years ago. As demand for corn has increased excess subsidized crops which were once purchased by the federal government are now being shipped to ethanol plants. Well the federal government used to take that corn and ship it to third world countries (i.e. Africa) to help starving poverty stricken people. Thus the increase in domestic demand for corn has resulted in these imports no longer taking place, which has some groups saying that the ethanol industry indirectly kills starving people in third world countries.

So lets bottom line it shall we...

Ethanol helps:
Corn farmers and detriot automakers that want to claim they have "green" SUV's

Ethanol hurts:
US consumers in our price of meat, corn-related products such as corn syrup, and costs more than gas given reduced mileage/gal
Third world countries that used to rely on U.S. imports of corn

As technology improves cellulosic ethanol will become economic, which uses switchgrass or fiberous materials such as the corn stalk itself to make ethanol, when this occurs the industry will switch from using a food based input to fiberous inputs that will not cause some of the issues I've pointed out above.

On another note, converting any automobile to a FFV is technically illegal believe it or not. Now I don't think anyone is currently enforcing the law but I've heard discussions that they've actually considered shutting down some of the conversion shops in CA due to the law. I actually started looking into for my truck but decided the cost/benefit was not in my favor. I think the reason for the law is the government doesn't want a bunch of people converting trucks/suv's and screwing up which would potentially screw with emissions. It's actually a relatively expensive project when you consider you have to redo all the injectors, fuel lines, gas tank and reprogram the PCM to accomplish the conversion. The dealership will tell you its cheaper to trade in your truck than it is to convert it.

Me personally, I want an F150 that has a diesel engine so I can burn biodiesel, but then I could tell you stories about how virgin oil production is burning rainforests in maylasia to plant palm trees to make palm oil; but that's another story alltogether....

 

Almost right i think....the waste vegetable oil still needs converting to keep it from destroying your engine.....

 

But if it lowers emissions and keeps the EPA from screwing with the gassers like their doing to the diesel folks it doesn't sound so bad. I remember the gas lines from the 70's. Some home grown fuel would have been welcome then.

 

I agree 100%! But, we are also paying Americans to build ethenol plants, drive trucks, harvest corn, build ethanol stations... Some of this has to help out OUR economy too. If only there were ways to make ethenol without robbing Peter to pay Paul!
ERIC

 

All this disparaging talk about "towel heads" ...the fact remains that the majority of U.S. imported oil comes from the Western Hemisphere (50%), not the Middle East (17%).

BTW, if you type "where does us oil come from" into Google, you get a PBS.org site, which states that U.S. Light Trucks consume 10% of the world's total oil, while producing 5% of greenhouse gases.

Sources:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure/gas06/gasoline.htm
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/st...images/map.swf

 

well , i would like to add who really cares about third world countries going hungry? i wasnt aware that its the united states job to support,rebuild,and supply food to other countries. mabye its time we start worrying bout ourselves instead of everyone else. and as you say that is illegal to make an ffv engine why is it that you can buy a new truck with one in it?

 

-

Thanks for the kind words...but we are back to that 1.31 factor again?

OK I will type out all the math to see if it makes sense. The E85 is going in my turbocharged Acura RSX - the owners manual states "Premium Only" based on the factory compression ratio of 11:1, then considering the after market turbo - and fuel with high octane becomes a MUST HAVE. So on to some of the numbers:

"Factory MPG rating" = 24 city / 31 highway

My personal average performance over 1 tank = 31 mpg gas / 27 mpg E85

Difference = 31 / 27 = 1.15 (definitely lower than 1.31)

Cost of E85 = 2.75/gal
Cost of premium 3.45/gal

Difference $3.45/$2.75 = 1.25

or to look at it another way

$2.75 worth of E85 takes me 27 miles or (2.75/27) = 10.2 cents / mile

$3.45 worth of premium takes me 31 miles or (3.45/31) = 11.1 cents / mile

So there is actually a slight savings for me using E85. Hopefully, with better tuning, the E85 advantage will become even greater.

The other way I look at it is that even IF E85 did cost a little more, that extra money is going to (at best) American farmers and (at worst) American corporations such as ADM and Du Pont - As opposed to gasoline money going to terrorists who have sworn to kill us.

 

Because they're EPA approved and have gone through the certification ringer.

The outfits making the conversion kits are not getting any type of official approval/certification from what I've read. Doing so would require just a few tons of cash.

 

Difference = 31 / 27 = 1.15 (definitely lower than 1.31). I guarantee you my F-150 gets no where near this type of mileage via ethanol. Last time I checked (I don't use it anymore) the inefficiency factor was 1.25. I checked it 3X. Maybe your turbocharged system has some bearing on why you're getting better mileage than am I. We consumers buy things when we think we're getting a better deal. Right now ethanol is anything but for me. I just wanted to point this out because everytime I see some politician pounding the table regarding ethanol I want to yell back at em'.

 

The auto industry doesn't want you converting your current non-FFV to a FFV because they would rather you buy a new vehicle from them.

 

GM Expected To Cut 500 Jobs At Michigan Truck Plant -

ReportLast update: 7/23/2007 8:35:26 AMNEW YORK (Dow Jones)-

-General Motors Corp. (GM) is expected to lay off about 500 workers at its Pontiac Assembly Center in Michigan, where the automaker builds full-size pickup trucks, The Detroit News reported on its Web site Monday.

Officials will decide Monday whether to approve a plan to cut about 100 full-time workers and nearly 400 temporary employees in September, the newspaper said, citing anonymous sources.

The plan would cut production by about 17% at the plant, according to the report. The job cuts would come as GM's redesigned Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups struggle to attract new buyers, the report said.

The new pickups have failed to produce the sales boost the automaker was counting on, according to the report.

 

I can't blame people for not buying those fugly trucks.

 

Good info and good sources. It is actually data like this which makes me like ethanol more...at least until something better comes along. We don't have to replace ALL of the oil with ethanol, but if we could cut out the 17% that comes from the middle east, and the dozen? or so percent that comes from "less desirable" western hemisphere countries (Venezuela, etc) that would be a heck of a good start in my book.

 

But with whom are you going to get that 17% from? It's been said that IF ALL of our corn produced this year was solely used to produce ethanol it would ONLY satisfy 8% of our annual gas consumption.

 

Good stuff.