I was checking out the upgrade ignitions systems for my truck. It's a '87 460 with pretty much stock components. It's .40 over with a Competition Cams #34-225-4 and Crane Energizer roller rockers just added. Compression ratio should be right about 9:1. I've looked over the MSD info and especially the 5 series Inductive Ignition series. And I've compared it to the Crane Fireball Hi-6S Inductive Ignition. Anyone have comments or experience on the Crane Fireball unit? The fireball comes with a built in digital rev limiter. The msd 5 and 6a do not have this until you get to the 6al. The Fireball stops the multisparking at 2000 rpms while the msd unit continues it till 3000 rpms. The Fireball seems comparable with the Capacitive Discharge MSD 6 series but is a Inductive Discharge unit. Anyone have further comments or comparisons?

Tony

 

Go to the newsstand, and pick up a new copy of Car Craft, I just got mine in the mail this week, and it has a dyno shootout of the best ignitions available for under $200. I have heard numerous pleas from Crane about the superiority of their product, but the dyno shows no real improvement, in fact the MSD 6a puts out more that the Fireball ignition. Everybody wants to be the king, but stick with the original, the MSD 6a box and a Blaster II coil, and you can't go wrong. I have one, and it is easy to hook up, and gives you everything you need, faster starts, better milage, reduced plug fouling, and great reliability. You probably don't need a rev limiter anyway. That, and a set of Motorsport 9 mm wires, and you're all set. the digital signal isn't all that it's cracked up to be, as long as it's a Capacitive-discharge ignition, which the 6a is still the best.
John F. Daly III
The TorqueKing

 

I've heard that Platinum Plugs are not recommended for ignition upgrade systems? Can someone verify this? I havn't seen this information on either Crane or MSD's website, but just heresay through the parts counter guy.

I've also been told by the parts store guy that the aftermarket systems will burn up solid core wires. Is that why the recommendation of Ford Motorsport wires Mr Torqueking?

Do you know what Fireball system was used for the test? The motor is going in the truck tomorrow or thursday and I don't have time to run to the bookstore or walmart 25 miles away.

Thanks,
TonyG

 

Yeah Tony, it's the Crane Hi-6 ignition, with the LX-92 coil that's recommended by Crane. The MSD, according to Crane, puts out a weaker, analog (as opposed to digital) signal, yet the CarCraft test results show that the MSD is more powerful, and it's cheaper. go with the MSD 6a, unless you really want a rev limiter, then go with the 6aL, and a Blaster II coil. at Jeg's, this'll set you back 131.99 for the box, 28.99 for the coil, and 6.99 for shipping. I don't have my calculator, but it's cheaper than the Crane, starting at somewhere around $189. Do not use Platinum Plugs, I tried it, and regular plugs definately work better. I recommend Ford Motorcraft P/N 450's, they come gapped .044", which can be opened up to .050" safely, and you'll probably gain some performance from it too, b/c the 6a will surely jump across that gap. Yes, solid core wires are a very, very bad idea. I'm not sure exaclty what would happen, but don't do it, get a set of Motorsport 9mm wires, they're less than 50 bucks, offer tremendous radio suppressance, and are the low-resistance type so you get the most spark to the plug. This is one of the very few products made by Ford that I'll ever recommend. The 6a box and coil come with great instructions, and Jeg's has 24 hour tech support, so installing it is a joy, especially when you hit high RPMs on the street, or when you're cruising down the highway, and you realize that your cruising RPMs just dropped by about 100-200 RPM, saving MegaGas.
you can even download instructions from MSD's webpage before you buy it. Either way you go, you'll see an immediate difference in power and economy, it's truly one of the best bolt-ons you can buy
Happy Wrenching,
John F. Daly III
The TorqueKing

 

Torqueking,
First, thanks for the quick response and the comments:

"and it's cheaper." go with the MSD 6a, unless you
>really want a rev limiter, then go with the 6aL, and a
>Blaster II coil. at Jeg's, this'll set you back 131.99 for
>the box, 28.99 for the coil, and 6.99 for shipping. I don't
>have my calculator, but it's cheaper than the Crane,
>starting at somewhere around $189

I just checked the Jegs site and the price I see is $149.99 for the msd 6a, plus they have a handling fee of 6.50/order. Your right on on the coil, but I'd be getting the "F" coil with the horseshoe. Still a good price. To compare apples to apples, we have to compare price of the MSD 6AL with rev limiter at $195 compared to the fireball at $160 or $189 with LX92 coil. So the Crane system is really much cheaper.
If you go over to digital MSD, the price jumps up to $329 or so for a digital unit comparable to the Fireball Hi-6.

The local autoparts store is running a special on the Fireball 6S with LX91 coil package for $149.99, thus my interest in the 6s. Plus my compression ratio is under the 10:1 that they recommend the Hi-6 for but I think that means that you shouldn't use the 6s on engines with compressions above 9.5:1 and using a hi-6 on a lower comp ratio would be ok. I guess I'll call Crane.

especially when you
>hit high RPMs on the street, or when you're cruising down
>the highway, and you realize that your cruising RPMs just
>dropped by about 100-200 RPM, saving MegaGas.

You might have a lighter throttle setting as the fuel is making more power, but RPM's/mph won't drop of course as that is a gearing issue, but I hear what your saying and that's what I've heard elsewhere.

Thanks for the comments on the plugs and wires.
Tony

 

I havn't checked Jeg's since I bought mine, but it was only a few months ago, and it was 131.99. Don't worry about compression, you'll have no issues with a 6a, and the digital signal is not important at all, Car Craft proved that the analog MSD unit outperforms the Crane unit. And no, MPH/RPM is not entirely gearing, there are other thing that you are overlooking. The more torque you put the converter, the less it will slip, and the faster you will go. The ignition makes more torque at any given RPM, so you'll get rid of excess torque converter slippage. For that cheap of a price, go for it, but you won't need the horseshoe adapter on the F-coil, it is only for those guys using Duraspark igitions.
The TorqueKing

 

I have a 5 speed and I have Duraspark II. '87 F350
Peterson's 4wheel and off road also has a comparison.
http://www.cranecams.com/ignition/4wheeltext.htm
I'll stop by Walmart for a CarCraft mag on the way to the Ford Garage tomorrow as I have to pick up a dipstick for the oil pan.

Thanks again for the info.

Tony

 

>I've heard that Platinum Plugs are not recommended for
>ignition upgrade systems? Can someone verify this? I havn't
>seen this information on either Crane or MSD's website, but
>just heresay through the parts counter guy.

I called Crane today and asked about the systems burning up Platinum plugs. The customer service guy was knowledgable and said he never heard that comment before. He wondered where I heard it.

TonyG

 

Tony, I've used platinum plugs with a CD ignition, and they don't burn them up, they just don't give any of the benefits that you might think they would. The best plugs for any CD ignition system are NGK u-grooves, or Accel makes their own u-groove design, and even Motorcraft plugs are better than platinums, they just don't do anything special. If you go with the Hi-6 ignition, you won't need the F-coil, the F-coil is only if you are keeping the Duraspark module, only upgrading the coil. Beleive me, I used to have a Duraspark, and the MSD is the best bolt-on I've done yet. Well, except for cam/heads/valvetrain, but I'll be the first to tell you, there's nothing bolt-on about an engine teardown. I agree, Crane puts a nice package together, and they have as much literature as you could ever read on why their product is better, but there's just magic in that little red box that makes it overcome and outperform a more sophisticated unit. For the Price, go for it, Because the MSD is only about (1/4)% stronger, maybe 1 or 2 HP total at 335 HP, if I remember correctly. The bottom line is, you'll be very pleased with either unit
The TorqueKing

 

I called MSD today to find out their thoughts on Platinum Plugs. The tech rep that I talked to said that they don't recommend certain types of platinums that have the electrode supported by a glued on ceramic type insulator. He didn't specify brands. He says the glue "can" because of the extra heat generated become delaminated and realease the electrode fouling out the spark plug. He also said he know's several friends of his that use MSD and Platinums and they report no problems. He did however say that they also recommend going 1 or 2 steps colder in Plug selection to counteract the extra heat generated by the multiple and powerful sparks. This I hadn't seen anywhere in their literature or website either. He said a hot spark plug can act like a glow plug and cause preignition.

I picked up a Crane unit at the autoparts store today to take home for Inspection and to read the directions, etc. I must say I am impressed with the versatility of the unit and the compactness. The directions are adequate, but the Duraspark/Crane requires an extra relay wired into the run circuit to deal with a ballast of some kind that ford has. I'm still reading up on it.

To counteract the Sale Price of the Crane unit, the autoparts store has put the MSD's on sale also. The ignition box is $139.00 and the coil is $35. I'll have to find out if my wires will take the heat before I rush into either unit.

Torquekingster:
I think you could use the 'F' coil with the horseshoe slide on terminals when replacing just the coil or when replacing both. MSD shows the directions using the 'F' coil with a msd unit, but I would wire the trigger wire's direct and then put msd's coil power wires in the horseshoe and put the coil in the horseshoe bracket. It would make a 'factory' look. Or with the special price on the blaster 2, I could just forget about the 'f' coil and the horseshoe and wire it direct. I have to find out about the condenser coil on top of the ford coil and then I'll make my decision.

Both offer significant starting improvements and much hotter spark.

TonyG

 

True, it may be 1 step simpler to use the F coil, but there's no hope for a factory unit when using an MSD box. I completely ripped out my Duraspark ignition, threw it all in the trash, and wired the MSD direct from the ignition key, it's a sweet setup. That's cool that you found out about the platinum plug issue, I'd never heard the technical reason for not why not to use them. What year is your truck? If it's 1975 or later then you have a magnetic trigger distributor, and your ignition will absolutely come to life with either CD unit, you'll get amazingly accurate ignition timing. Even Car Craft's test can't prove the dominance of the MSD unit, as the performance would be different for every appication. Crane claims more current at the spark plug, but that depends on your wire setup, distributor cap and rotor. The point is, there's no apples to apples comparison unless you buy both units, install them and run them at the strip. You won't be dissapointed in either unit.
The TorqueKing

 

Well, I since my crank is magnetically triggered, I can't use the Crane 6s. I'd have to use the 6R. So, since it is about $100 more, I'm off to the autoparts store to exchange for the MSD unit and maybe some cooler plugs. Anyone need some Bosch Platinums?..unused,

Tony

 

Make that two sets, I have a set that I'm bringing back, they didn't do anything for me. I normally like Bosch products, escpecially the oil filters, and in fact, Bosch has a guarantee on those plugs. If you're not satisfied with them then Bosch will buy them back. It's not the quality of the plug, it's just the whole platinum thing that doesn't work. You'll love that MSD Box, send me an IM if you need to get the instruction manual, I have it in .PDF format. My IM name is JFDGA03, or I can email it to you.
Happy wrenching, and duct-taping,
John F. Daly III
The TorqueKing

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 13-Apr-02 AT 01:58 AM (EST)]Torquester,
I have to disagree that Platinum Plugs don't work. I'm taking mine out if I put the MSD unit in because these I think are the type of plugs in which the glue delaminates from the heat. I like Bosch and Platinums and run them in all my vehicles. I have used Denso ES 24zu (I think) and NGK DR8EVX in my motorcycles. They are Platinum also. I was sold on Platinum on my motorcycles when in the Spring and Fall, they allowed me to start the motorcycle much easier down to 35-40 degree mornings.
Doing some tests back and forth with new regular plugs on a cold morning confirmed the easier starting and also what seemed like a little more torque. Regular NGK's would be ok down to 50 degrees. Below that, it was real work to get it started.
I have also consitently gotten 50,000 miles out of Platinum plugs while other plugs seem to wear out by 20,000 miles.

On a file cabinet where I got my motor swapped the guy had a spark plug laying on top. It was a bosch plug and the ceramic support had split. I assumed this was from a hot spark from such a aftermarket unit that we are talking about. That's the reason for my switch. If NGK's has some Platinums in a step colder than my stock range, I might opt for them as I think they are the type without glue'd on ceramic supports. But I might just get some plain Autolights or Reg NGK's to start out till I do some more research.

We havn't been able to get spark on the truck since putting the rebuilt motor back in. I was having some trouble with the starter motor hanging up and also with the truck missing and stumbling during several weeks before. I think I will try to troubleshoot the duraspark to find out why we don't have spark before putting the MSD unit in. That way I'll be able to find out if I have a bad ignition switch or ballast resistor or such items.

Just wanted ya to know that I for one, do like the Platinum type plug. I'm not too sold on the advantage of their +4 models, but 4 ground plugs have been around for years. My Dad has an old Army Generater with a Hercules motor in it from the late '50's-mid '60's. The plugs in that were 4 grounders. But ???

The Platinum Pusher,
Tony

 

You'll love that MSD Box, send me an IM if
>you need to get the instruction manual, I have it in .PDF
>format. My IM name is JFDGA03, or I can email it to you.
>Happy wrenching, and duct-taping,
>John F. Daly III
>The TorqueKing

Thanks for the offer John,
I expect the instruction manual will be in the box, but if I'm missing anything, I see MSD has it in PDF files. I've already downloaded it and I like the simplicity of hookup especially using the 8860 connector harness to plug directly into the magnetic trigger sending wires.

Tony