roller rocker power gains?
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
roller rocker power gains?
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 24-Mar-02 AT 09:20 PM (EST)]Am thinking of replacing rocker arms. Anyone know what they alone would do for a basically stock 460.. It has headers and K&N. Is there a big gain of just using the roller rocker arms or do they need to be used with a roller cam and lifters?
Tony
Tony
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 692
Likes: 0
roller rocker power gains?
Just roller rockers?? You won't gain enough HP
to be noticed, 4-5HP....
Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
to be noticed, 4-5HP....
Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 56,984
Likes: 2,738
From: Virginia
roller rocker power gains?
The advantage would be reduced valve guide wear. The original rockers wipe across the valve stem, putting side pressure on them and increasing guide wear, which eventually leads to oil consumption and poor valve sealing. The roller rocker just rolls across the tip of the valve stem.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: USA
roller rocker power gains?
Just thought I've give my two cents worth here. I don't remember where it was (maybe Esslinger Engineering) but they advised that its a bad idea to combine like a new cam and used rockers, and that kind of stuff. I might have the two specific parts wrong but they said with the wear and tear and break in process and all that that having new and used combined will ruin your engine where if they are all new parts right there then they break in together just like if the engine were new. Hope this helps a little. Goodluck.
James
James
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
roller rocker power gains?
> Just roller rockers?? You won't gain enough HP
>to be noticed, 4-5HP....
Yeah, the cam and the lifters are already in the engine and I'll be picking it up tomorrow. I saw a set of roller rockers on ebay at a pretty good price and was considering it. I guess I'll save the roller cam and roller rocker setup for the stroker and tri-angle/stainless steel valve ported heads on the next motor. I need the engine soon as my bearings are going out pretty fast and I can't say when I'll lose oil pressure altogether. I'll probably just go with a new set of regular rocker arms unless the price difference is minimal.
Thanks for the responses. I guess its the whole roller cam and roller rocker setup that produces the 20-30 free horses.
Tony
>
>Steve & the Rockette
>'63 F100
>'68 F100
>'72 Capri 2L
>'73 Capri 2.6L V6
>'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
>'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
>'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
>to be noticed, 4-5HP....
Yeah, the cam and the lifters are already in the engine and I'll be picking it up tomorrow. I saw a set of roller rockers on ebay at a pretty good price and was considering it. I guess I'll save the roller cam and roller rocker setup for the stroker and tri-angle/stainless steel valve ported heads on the next motor. I need the engine soon as my bearings are going out pretty fast and I can't say when I'll lose oil pressure altogether. I'll probably just go with a new set of regular rocker arms unless the price difference is minimal.
Thanks for the responses. I guess its the whole roller cam and roller rocker setup that produces the 20-30 free horses.
Tony
>
>Steve & the Rockette
>'63 F100
>'68 F100
>'72 Capri 2L
>'73 Capri 2.6L V6
>'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
>'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
>'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
Trending Topics
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: USA
roller rocker power gains?
>i think maybe you mean dont combine a used cam with
>different lifters or vise/versa. the lifters wear to the
>lobes on flat tappet applications.
I think you're right. I knew it was something with the cam, just couldn't remember exactly. Thanks for assisting there.
Have a great day.
James
>different lifters or vise/versa. the lifters wear to the
>lobes on flat tappet applications.
I think you're right. I knew it was something with the cam, just couldn't remember exactly. Thanks for assisting there.
Have a great day.James
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,712
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
roller rocker power gains?
The roller cam is going to be worth 40 ft*lbs on a SMALL block, you have a BB, more friction to avoid, I'd look for 45-50 ft*lbs more torque, and most likely 40 HP, given identical cam grinds. The roller rockers will have a synergistic efffect when coupled with the roller cam. The best thing is, The gain will be all across the RPM range, and will contribute to a longer engine life, due to less vavle guide wear, which helps oil seep into the combustion chamber. If you can get a roller cam in that block, then you'd be really rocking. The retrofit kits get expensive though, so be aware.
Happy wrenching,
John F. Daly III
The TorqueKing
Happy wrenching,
John F. Daly III
The TorqueKing
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
roller rocker power gains?
Crane Cams is one maker of a retrofit roller cam.
http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/ford52.htm#1.%20PowerMax
There may be others. Crane also apparently has a roller tip rocker arm that might be a slight upgrade over a regular rocker arm.
For the guys that where discussing weather or not to replace rocker arms with a engine rebuild, it seems that if you replace pushrods or other components, Lunati for one recommends replacing rockers for the same reason that you replace lifters when you replace a cam.
Here's a quote from a Lunati Cams webpage:
"When rebuilding an engine, one of the most overlooked areas is the pushrods and rocker arms. Similar to a lifter that develops a wear pattern to the camshaft, the pushrod develops a wear pattern in the pushrod seat. If you mismatch the ***** and seats, premature failure will result. We recommend you replace pushrods and rocker arms when rebuilding your engine. The special heat treated ***** welded to the ends of the Bracket Master II pushrods make them an ideal replacement piece for your worn stock pushrods"
Tony
http://www.cranecams.com/master/apps/ford52.htm#1.%20PowerMax
There may be others. Crane also apparently has a roller tip rocker arm that might be a slight upgrade over a regular rocker arm.
For the guys that where discussing weather or not to replace rocker arms with a engine rebuild, it seems that if you replace pushrods or other components, Lunati for one recommends replacing rockers for the same reason that you replace lifters when you replace a cam.
Here's a quote from a Lunati Cams webpage:
"When rebuilding an engine, one of the most overlooked areas is the pushrods and rocker arms. Similar to a lifter that develops a wear pattern to the camshaft, the pushrod develops a wear pattern in the pushrod seat. If you mismatch the ***** and seats, premature failure will result. We recommend you replace pushrods and rocker arms when rebuilding your engine. The special heat treated ***** welded to the ends of the Bracket Master II pushrods make them an ideal replacement piece for your worn stock pushrods"
Tony
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
From: USA
roller rocker power gains?
Tony,
I found the information I was trying to say. Its in the Esslinger Engineering Catalog on page T-6.
"ALWAYS - Use new cast rocker arms with a new cast camshaft. They break-in and become hardened together. If you try to install used rockers on a new cam or install a used cam with new rockers, then you stand a very good chance of experiencing quick and extreme wear do to the incompatibility of the degree of hardness between the two wear surfaces."
I hope this helps ya some. Goodluck.
James
I found the information I was trying to say. Its in the Esslinger Engineering Catalog on page T-6.
"ALWAYS - Use new cast rocker arms with a new cast camshaft. They break-in and become hardened together. If you try to install used rockers on a new cam or install a used cam with new rockers, then you stand a very good chance of experiencing quick and extreme wear do to the incompatibility of the degree of hardness between the two wear surfaces."
I hope this helps ya some. Goodluck.
James
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,416
Likes: 4
From: PacNW
roller rocker power gains?
>Tony,
>
>I found the information I was trying to say. Its in the
>Esslinger Engineering Catalog on page T-6.
>
>"ALWAYS - Use new cast rocker arms with a new cast camshaft.
> They break-in and become hardened together. If you try to
>install used rockers on a new cam or install a used cam with
>new rockers, then you stand a very good chance of
>experiencing quick and extreme wear do to the
>incompatibility of the degree of hardness between the two
>wear surfaces."
I would say this applies exclusively to OHC motors. In a typical pushrod engine the rocker and cam do not have any direct contact. The lifter surface contacts the camshaft so the advice to always replace the lifters when you replace a camshaft is certainly appropriate.
>
>I found the information I was trying to say. Its in the
>Esslinger Engineering Catalog on page T-6.
>
>"ALWAYS - Use new cast rocker arms with a new cast camshaft.
> They break-in and become hardened together. If you try to
>install used rockers on a new cam or install a used cam with
>new rockers, then you stand a very good chance of
>experiencing quick and extreme wear do to the
>incompatibility of the degree of hardness between the two
>wear surfaces."
I would say this applies exclusively to OHC motors. In a typical pushrod engine the rocker and cam do not have any direct contact. The lifter surface contacts the camshaft so the advice to always replace the lifters when you replace a camshaft is certainly appropriate.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 692
Likes: 0
roller rocker power gains?
>>"ALWAYS - Use new cast rocker arms with a new cast camshaft.
>> They break-in and become hardened together.
>I would say this applies exclusively to OHC motors.
Hi Bill...
Right you are, sir, never use old followers
with new cams...the cams go flat in a big
hurry, which is bad for the pocket book...
Rollers on the other hand, you can use with
new cam/old followers...
Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
>> They break-in and become hardened together.
>I would say this applies exclusively to OHC motors.
Hi Bill...
Right you are, sir, never use old followers
with new cams...the cams go flat in a big
hurry, which is bad for the pocket book...
Rollers on the other hand, you can use with
new cam/old followers...
Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,628
Likes: 345
From: Albuquerque
roller rocker power gains?
I didn't read all the info here but a word on rockers/new cams. The times you need to definitely use new rockers of some kind is when you add a new cam that has higher lift/duration that stock. After many miles on the old cam the rocker has a wear pattern. The new cam will wear in new areas and the overlap areas can weaken and crack.
Bear
Bear