You still haven't provided 100% positive proof that such a vehicle DOESN'T exist. Touche.

FWIW: I -OWNED- a 1986 2.0L 1-bbl carbureted Duraspark-II ignited 5-speed Ranger with only one factory / dealer option: Air Conditioning. But, I bet those didn't exist, either.

 

> I -OWNED- a 1986 2.0L 1-bbl carbureted Duraspark-II ignited 5-speed
> Ranger with only one factory / dealer option: Air Conditioning.

Nothing unusual about that set up, if you said automatic then I would be interested.

You said they exist, all I am asking for is proof positive, not repeating a general VIN listing for an engine that never was produced in a Bronco II repeating a lie/mistake/omission from Ford just because they lumped the Bronco II in with the Ranger listing.

 

The 2.0 with automatic tranny option would probably be very rare, IMO. I did see some listings for auto tranny parts on partsamerica.com for an '86 2.0L-equipped Ranger.

As for proving or debunking the 2.3L Turbodiesel equipped BIIs, I have contacted Ford directly and am waiting for response back on whether they existed or not, where they were produced if they did exist, and what markets they were sold in....

 

Okay while I was looking for my '86 BII I saw two (yes 2) 4cyl diesel BIIs listed on ebay. One was in the Yukon and one was in Tennessee. As far as I remember they were both stock. I didn’t look into them because they were both out of my price range and pickup range. It did get me thinking about putting a diesel in my '87 BII though.

 

> The 2.0 with automatic tranny option would probably be very rare, IMO.

Yes, because they would not allow you to input the auto transmission with the engine. I don't even know if they had a bellhousing/auto that would match up to the diesels. My thinking at the time was because they were too underpowered, but 20 years later I can look back and think maybe because the autos didn't match up was the biggest reason since they were not Ford diesels and autos were not popular/offered in Japan.

> I saw two (yes 2) 4cyl diesel BIIs listed on ebay.

No doubt, doesn't mean they were factory. Example, Ford wouldn't let you order 4x4 with the diesel or 2.0/2.3 gas because it was not strong enough and put the truck out of its weight range and didn't have the power to move it.

But, that does not mean you can't find one that someone hasn't upgraded to 4x4 or swapped engines and transmissions. I found a 80s 4x4 Ranger with a diesel on CL yesterday. Doesn't mean it was factory ordered that way.

In the FWIW category, the diesels you see on E-Bay might not be Ford diesels either. Many times they are farm equipment diesels they stuff in Fords because the splines match up (example the Perkins at Northern Tool for $2,000).

Proof positive is as simple as a BII engine bay picture and a VIN. Then we can take the VIN to Ford's site and pull up a complete build sheet for free. ;-)

 

True. The 2.2L non-turbo diesel was a Mazda/Perkins engine and the 2.3L turbodiesel was a Mistubishi as far as the Rangers, and like I said, it was the 2.3L turbodiesel that was supposedly offered as an option from '85-'87 in the BII. One of the diesel Rangers I remember seeing in Texas was a 4x4, IIRC. But, I could be wrong. The limitation of the diesels wasn't just the horsepower, but the torque ratings, IIRC.

Anyhow, the 2.0/2.3L gas engines probably had a C3 or C5 auto behind them... but either way, it's the same automatic setup that was offered in the Ford Pinto, Mercuri Capri, and 4-banger Mustangs, as the 2.0/2.3L gas engines are the same block and bellhousing pattern, among other things. I had toyed with the idea of doing some junkyard shopping to get a 2.3L EFI intake, wiring, sensors, and computer but ended up trading my '86 Ranger in.

Which CL site did you find that Ranger on, and was it an F-series Ranger (pre-1982/3) or an actual Ranger mid-size? Anyhow, no response yet, as it is the weekend, but I guess we'll see if Ford is going to reply. You know, come to think of it, I think I remember seeing those two BIIs on eBay... but I can't remember. Someone evidently bought 'em or something... no listings currently.

 

> The limitation of the diesels wasn't just the horsepower, but the torque ratings

I agree, that is why I used the word "power" instead of horsepower or torque.

> Which CL site did you find that Ranger on

Right now, this one:

http://vancouver.craigslist.org/car/347251721.html

 

I also found an '85 2.3L diesel parts truck on there. No definite answer yet from Ford... I guess they're still reasearching...

 

Okay, and update of sorts -- while this is not 100% verified, this is the response I received:
------------
From: "Bow, Jim \(J.G.\)" <jbow@ford.com>
To: 'David Granger'
Cc:
Subject: RE: I have an off-the wall question...
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:54 -0400

FYI:
The information I'm providing here is NOT certified information.
I found the following info in the 1985, 1986, and 1987 "Ford Light Truck
Body Builders Book".

1985 Bronco II 4x4 2.3L (140) Turbo-Diesel I4 (Late Availability) VIN code = E (Not to be confused with the 2.3L GAS EFI also available, VIN code = A)

1986 Bronco II 4x2 2.3L (140) Turbo-Diesel I4 VIN code = E (Not to be confused with the 2.3L GAS EFI also available, VIN code = A)


1987 Bronco II 2.9L (179 EFI) Gas ONLY


Additional data is available (assembly plant info, etc.) if you
provide a complete VIN for a specific model year. Reference information
for VIN Codes: http://www.ktp.ford.com/reference/vin.pdf

Additional information may be available from the Body Builder
Advisory Service at 1-877-840-4338, or at
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/ .


Thanks,
Jim Bow
313-323-2724
Ford Truck DSO Engineering
PDC 1H-J10



-----Original Message-----
From: Duquette, Judy (J.A.)
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:59 PM
To: Bow, Jim (J.G.)
Subject: FW: I have an off-the wall question...

FYI
judy

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonatzke, Ruth (R.)
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 9:50 AM
To: Attanasio, Jennifer (L.); Duquette, Judy (J.A.)
Cc: Beattie, Cathy (C.J.)
Subject: RE: I have an off-the wall question...

Hi Judy, I hope you're having a great summer.

We have a request for historical info and I'm not sure who can assist
(We only go back 5 years in our center). In the email below, we have
been asked to confirm if there was a 2.3L turbo diesel engine available
on '85 - '87MY Bronco and if so, who was it's assembly
plant/manafacturer.

I've got an '87 VIN guide that shows that we had a 2.3L Turbo Diesel
engine available, but I don't know where it was made or which vehicles
it was available on. Do you know of anyone who would have specs from
that far back?


Thanks for any suggestions!

Ruth Jonatzke
Ford Business Assistance Center
FCIC/VOPC Research Coordinator
313-621-0054
rjonatz1@ford.com
Regent Court 6S115



-----Original Message-----
From: Attanasio, Jennifer (L.)
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 8:34 AM
To: Jonatzke, Ruth (R.)
Cc: Beattie, Cathy (C.J.)
Subject: FW: I have an off-the wall question...

Ruth,

Any idea where to go with this question???

Jennifer Attanasio
Car/SUV Fleet Marketing Manager
JATTANAS@FORD.COM
Phone: 313-206-2159
Fax: 313-594-4684


-----Original Message-----
From: Beattie, Cathy (C.J.) On Behalf Of Somail, V (V.)
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 8:38 AM
To: Attanasio, Jennifer (L.)
Cc: 'David Granger'
Subject: RE: I have an off-the wall question...

Jennifer,

Do you know who would have the answer to Dave's question? Please see
below. Thanks.

Regards,
Cathy J. Beattie
VSO Option Development
6N 106 RCB, Ford Motor Company
Phone/Fax: 313.390.1567
cbeattie@ford.com

-----Original Message-----
From: David Granger
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 2:25 PM
To: Somail, V (V.)
Subject: I have an off-the wall question...

Okay, I don't know who to contact, but I figured your department would.
My question is, was there EVER a factory-produced Bronco II made
between 1985-1987 equipped with the 2.3L Mitsubishi Turbodiesel engine?
If so, could you please give me some kind of proof, and if possible,
the VIN number(s) of said vehicles and where they were produced and
sold. I'm trying to prove or debunk possible erroneous information
listed on lmctruck.com: http://lmctruck.com/icatalog/fr/0010.asp I
thank you in advance for your help and would appreciate any information
you can provide.

Dave
--------

So, while not 100% proof positive, it does confirm the possibility that the 2.3L TurboDiesel Bronco II may exist.

 

Well, nothing has changed.

Been there, seen that, with the VIN guides. That is what it is, a guide. It does not mean the vehicle was ever made. I have the 1990 sales guide they let me take when I left Ford (from which I post pages time to time to FTE). I can find things listed in that probably never were produced too.

Example
Going by "paper" in 1995 you could order any Aerostar with AWD, the reality was only extended length Aerostars got them with the 4.0L when you tried to order them from Ford.

A VIN listing does not a vehicle make, especially in Canada and the USA.

I am not inclined to do it, because I worked at Ford dealerships and know what was produced and what was not. BUT, Ford had to certify each drivetrain for emissions. Maybe seeing if the drivetrain was certified for a Bronco II might be a start. Because without that, they wouldn't be sold in the USA, much less California and NY. Maybe checking the CARB database would be a start.

 

I can't help you on the BII stuff, but I sure have seen my share of burnt ones.

However I did own a '85 F-150 XLT Lariet package. Short box Style side, 302, AOD.

It had a computer controlled carb on it. No FI.

 

1) C.A.R.B. database for LDTs (Light Duty Trucks) or anything else under 8500 pounds has no info for anything prior to 1996 (Already looked!)

2) If you read what it said, it's not 100% certified, but the last bit of info at the top of the e-mail said it came from the body builder's book, which, if I'm not mistaken, is a little more in depth than just a VIN guide. Which, the online info doesn't go back that far either (which is why I e-mailed Ford directly).

3) Looked up info on the EPA website and actually found some info on Federally certified vehicles. Apparently, according to them, Ford certified 4WD 2.3L FI Bronco IIs -AND- Rangers. Imagine that.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/crttst.htm

4) Also, on the EPA Website, I found fuel economy info. For 1985 model year, there -IS- a listing for a Bronco II 4WD with a 2.3L DIESEL. For the 1986 model year, there is a listing for a Bronco II 2WD 2.3L FFS (Gas). Nothing other than 2.9L listed for both 2 and 4WD for 1987. Okay, does this confirm actual vehicles or are they both unicorns? From my understanding, 2WD Bronco IIs weren't offered until 1987, and from what you're saying, there was never a 2.3L diesel offered, but the EPA seems to think both of these vehicles exist. *shrug*
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fedata.htm

 

> anything else under 8500 pounds has no info for anything prior to 1996

Oh well, that was the best shot since they use an actual vehicle.

> said it came from the body builder's book

That is what I have too, guess I am just using a different term.

> Apparently, according to them, Ford certified 4WD 2.3L FI Bronco IIs -AND- Rangers.

Better lead! Now, just have to confirm for that year if Ford had to submit an actual
vehicle, self-certified, or independent (like the FCC).

> Also, on the EPA Website, I found fuel economy info. For 1985 model year, there -IS- a
> listing for a Bronco II 4WD with a 2.3L DIESEL

This is the best evidence there was at least a test model because to get that, it
had to be run on a track! Even if it was meant for another country and they
were covering the bases in case they decided to produce it in the USA.

I wonder if it is possible to get the VIN for that vehicle?

> Okay, does this confirm actual vehicles or are they both unicorns?

Could be a unicorn, though there might have been a real test vehicle.

We already know the story about Chevy destroying a fleet of hydrids
or battery powered cars when they decided not to sell them.

> 2WD Bronco IIs weren't offered until 1987, and from what you're saying,
> there was never a 2.3L diesel offered, but the EPA seems to think both
> of these vehicles exist. *shrug*

I think Ford probably tested a wide range of "possible" vehicle
drivetrain combinations just in case they decided to offer them
for sale. That way they are ready to sell and are certified, even
though they were not offered for sale and you couldn't order them
from the factory.

You might find a 1995 Aerostar 3.0/AWD with an EPA rating, that
does not mean it was actually sold.

Just a way to cover all the bases for the OEM.

I think the EPA stuff confirms at least test vehicles, even if they were one offs such as the 2x4 Bronco.

 

Well, if you know how to decipher some of that info that was posted on the EPA site, I believe both 'unicorns' were equipped with the 5-speed transmission, which is the most likely possibility, IMO. But, I would have to agree that we'd need to see physical proof in pictures and have a bonafide VIN of said vehicles to prove 100% that they existed. It's been rather fun looking up this info for me, and the discussion as well. I'll keep my eyes open....