You can make your own E85 at home, using May 2007 feedstock prices, for as much as $2.46/gallon or as little as $1.95/gallon. Whereas regular unleaded gas is safely averaging out to be $3.00/gallon in most cities across the US.

The highest/lowest prices I could find are as follows:
1) 1-bushell is equal to 56LB of corn, prices varied between $2.25 and $4.00 per bushell
2) 56LB=3/gal of ethanol (95% ethanol)
3) 2000LB of corn=107/gal (95% ethanol)
4) 2000LB of corn=$143 at $4/56LB, or $81 at $2.25/56LB
5) $4/56LB=$1.33/gal and $2.25/56LB=$0.75/gal
6) Added costs for producing the ethanol (heating fuel/water/chemicals) is approximately $0.75/gal
7) Producing 95% ethanol/alcohol: $4/56LB=$2.08/gal, and $2.25/56LB=$1.50/gal
8) E85 mixed fuel (15% regular unleaded gasoline), add 16/gal at $3.00/gal, or $48/16gal
9) Final costs for "home made" E85: $303/123-gallons ($2.46/gal) to $240/123-gallons ($1.95/gal) (highest vs. lowest)

If you drive 12,000 miles/year with your V10-engine that gets 12mpg with regular unleaded, and 1.5-times less mpg with E85, you're looking at 8mpg with E85. Your annual cost for "home-made" E85 is $3690-$2925. Your annual cost for unleaded gasoline is basically fixed at $3000.

So it looks like you are paying more or less for E85 right?

As the producer of E85, you're able to receive a federal tax credit of approximately $0.50 for every gallon you produce; which comes out to approximately $750. In that year you're going to pay $2940-$2175 for 1500 gallons of E85, or you can pay approximately $3000 for 1000 gallons of unleaded gasoline to go the same distance.

At the end of the year you're looking at saving $60-$825 over the cost of regular unleaded fuel! As long as your vehicle is equipped to use E85 you're coming out on top by making your own fuel.

WHICH IS LEGAL, so long as you have the FREE permit provided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

Application form found at this website:
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/id10.html

The considerations for the necessary hardware were not included in that price, a distillery system is going to cost you approximately $0-$1000, and the computer programmer for your truck will cost approximately $0-$1000.

Even if you had to convert your V10/truck to use E85, it's going to pay for itself with the annual savings; well within 3-years.

What do you think? It makes sense on paper....based on facts.

v/r,
Phil

 

Yep, I agree, good numbers, and thanks for your post, although it would be nice to see down in the V-10 section. Home Brew E-85 would be terriffic especially if you had a ready close corn source you could buy direct from the producer saving the elevator's mark-up. And, if there is a cattle feedlot nearby, they will pay you cash money for the distillers grain, a byproduct of ethanol production, and feed their cattle with it.
The other byproduct, CO2, could be also collected and sold, but would be more difficult to do. The waste water--well......lagoon or holding tank then pump out to disposal sites.

Now, if someone just made a simple, complete distillery package for back yard brewing, and---

FORD needs to wake up and offer a totally exclusively E-85 designed V-10 with the high compression pistons and blower. Yes, you couldn't run regular dino gas or E-10, but if you are your own fuel company and gas station, who cares???
I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

Welcome to the site! Nice research and background work. Keep it up.

 

you need to figure in that you will not make the same hp. use more e85 and less hp.

 

I think alternative fuel is bitchin.

I wrote Ford and asked them to state unequivocally (in an email to me) that using commercially (not even home grown) available alternate fuel would not effect my engine and fuel system warranty- and they refused. So I ain't using a drop of it until the warranty is out. About $12,000, IIRC, to R&R a new diesel in there. Caveat emptor.

 

In response to elmo8641's thread,

The reason you see a decrease in mileage is because the ethanol has less energy than the same amount of gasoline, just as a diesel gets better mileage than its gasoline counterpart, because diesel contains more energy (BTU/gal) than gasoline.


ESTIMATED NUMBERS
Diesel...................130,500 BTU/gal
Gasoline...............115,000 BTU/gal
E85......................81,500 BTU/gal
Ethanol.................75,700 BTU/gal

Some people might say, "More power = less mileage?"
I say, "Knowledge is Power!" (sorry, had to use it...too funny!)


Secondly, you're right about the need to use more E85 to cover the same ground that regular unleaded gas will. Where the E85 consumer wins is that it typically <KEYWORD>costs less to travel the same distance with E85, so you're still likely to spend less cash per mile. Call it "The yin and yang of E85?"


For whatever reason, where you are mistaken is that E85 provides more HP per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline. Given E85's ability to burn completely therefore produces more "explosive pressure," or compression, in the same size engine cylinder.


Newton's Third Law of Motion:
"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."


FIELD TESTED EXAMPLE FROM THIS WEBSITE:


geokoppmann tested his 4.2L V-6 and noted in the #6 reply:


"...the two Dyno runs yielded 164.19 HP compared to the OEM base line of 156.62 HP on 86 octane (Before conversion)."

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/586456-e-85-ethanol-in-98-f150-custom-programmed-diablosport-chip.html


With the information I've discovered by researching the pro's and con's of E85, I hope to help other people understand that E85 isn't as bad as the rumors try to make it seem....rumors created by the oil industry to steer would-be customer's cash away from their bank accounts.

v/r,
Phil

 

4WD,

There are several kits you can purchase to make your own ethanol, 95% alcohol. With the free permit you request through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms of course, you can legally make as much as 10,000 gallons per year without question; it takes about 30-days to get the permit in your hands, from the day you mailed it off.

Links:

http://www.vonheltzen.com/Information.html (20-30 gallon stills can be purchased, but it's less expensive to make your own)

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...anual_ToC.html (free book on doing it all yourself)

Hope that helps?

v/r,
Phil

 

A lot of people say that E85 is crap. I think a lot of these people really do not know what they are talking about and are just parroting what has been fed to them. If you optimize an engine to take advantage of the 105 octane provided by E85 the mileage deficit disappears and the engine will actually make a lot lot lot more power.

 

I agree completely! It's similar to everything in society I suppose? I don't dare dub it "The American Way" because it's NOT! The latest and greatest gadget is always scrutinized until enough people try it and see that they like it. There will always be those people that complain about a problem, as there will always be those people that try to fix the problem.

Take for example the last time one of your buddies asked you about something you just bought (we'll use your truck in this example), the same one they were looking at for the past 6-months, but didn't want to be the first to buy into it? Same thing right? I bet they bought that same truck after they tried it, or noticed how much you liked it!

With a new technology everyone's a skeptic until they see it with their own two-eyes.

v/r,
Phil

 

Thanks! I've made the time to look into E85 during my off time from work. I'm currently on another "OIF-trip."

My personal joke to people that think they know what I do comes after they say something like, "So, you're going over there again huh?" With a straight face I'll say, "Nope! I live over there, I just choose to take my annual vacation in the states!"

The look on their faces is priceless!

v/r,
Phil

 

Here is the problem that I have with most opponants of biofuel. They believe that the only way to make any type of biofuel is using corn, veggie oil or some type similiar to those. Then they say that will affect other markets, mainly human consumption and that isn't the case. Anything that can go thru fermentation can be used to create biofuel, although at this time they aren't as efficient as corn, veggie oil etc. with the improvement of harvesting technology then can be better then they are now. Switchgrass for example which does not affect human consumption obviously but also doesn't not affect animal consumption crops(unlike if we were to use fescue, coastal(type of fescue) or alfalfae etc. would) at this point is extremely close to producing the same ratings as conventional products used for biofuel and would not affect other markets and as such would be cheaper then using corn, veggie oil etc.. would be. That would affect your current figures as well and would make it more feasible to out right say "use biofuel".

 

You're absolutely correct! Just about any plantlife that grows on this planet can be used to produce ethanol; however, the more starch/sugar it has the more ethanol can be taken from it, which is why various corn and potatoes are really popular. Take for example your lawn clippings, they would not produce as much ethanol as corn, but guess what...it would produce more than nothing right?

In fact, lets say you did use corn. The fermentation process is not limited to the kernels of corn, you can use the entire corn stalk along with it! Which will probably help you get close to another gallon of ethanol per bushell of corn products used!

v/r,
Phil

 

If you were to harvest switchgrass(I'm using switchgrass because a. it is the one that is currently being used at UTK for research(which i hear about more due to my proximity now to the college) and b. doesn't affect human or animal markets if it's use was to be used for biofuel) younger grass it would yield you as much as corn would but not as much as potatoes because potatoes are a modified root designed specifically for food storage and you just can't beat that(but potatoes are a far cheaper and easier to grow then corn is generally speaking). Also the entire grass would be used in the entire process for processing into biofuel as well and I would imagine you would be able to eventually use the seed heads of grasses as well to extract even more as the technology permits. Younger grass is more sugar then starch but it is concentrated more then more mature grass because as the grass matures it contains more fiber and starts to put all it's food and energy(sugars and starches) into seed production. You would have to harvest it sooner then you would if you were to be using it for hay or the like. To illustrate this, if you were to put a group of horses(or just one for that matter) into a field that has a portion of older more mature grass and a portion with younger shorter grass, that horse will eat the dickens out of that shorter grass(even if the taller grass looks more lush) because of the higher content of sugar in that younger more immature grass. Using grass would be able to realistically replace corn as means to get biofuel(not as efficient as potatoes, but potatoes don't have the "problems" that corn has with requirements as a field crop and thus cheaper generally speaking). Another benefit to using grass v. conventional field crops(especially corn) is that you don't have to worried about making sure that you get rain at such and such time or frequency, grass is a little more forgiving incase there is a little harsher season then your typical field crops, bermuda(which would be another good choice for biofuel), kentucky 31(not so great choice biofuel due to the fact it is used for animal hay(even though it is poisonous to horses in certain life stages(broodmares or pregnant mares in last trimester specifically) but good source for biofuel), and to an extent coastal can handle longer dry spells then some of the others and still maintain intregrity, switchgrass is fair, not as good as bermuda or kentucky 31, but fair.

 

I have heard the best for ethanol is sugarcane and the best for Bio-D is canola.

 

[QUOTE=tex25025]If you were to harvest switchgrass(I'm using switchgrass because a. it is the one that is currently being used at UTK for research(which i hear about more due to my proximity now to the college) and b. doesn't affect human or animal markets if it's use was to be used for biofuel) younger grass it would yield you as much as corn would but not as much as potatoes because potatoes are a modified root designed specifically for food storage and you just can't beat that(but potatoes are a far cheaper and easier to grow then corn is generally speaking).

I haven't considered the use of any type of grass, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it if the feedstock I was using became hard to come by, or wasn't "in season." Another interesting plant isn't really thought of that much until you go bass fishing, and reel back 5-pounds of the stuff on your lure. Pond algae has been used in an experiment to make ethanol fuel. Pretty cool....Tie that into a pond cleaning business and you have a lot of algae to work with!

At any rate, good call with the switchgrass!!

v/r,
Phil