For these F350 diesel duallys what are the pros and cons of each tranny?

Manual
Automatic

I have recently been told manual is definitely more reliable especially for towing and hauling.

 

well the auto's do seem to go pretty often... and seeing how you're not dragging i would say go with a manual... and if you ever mod it, it's a lot cheaper to mod a manual than getting a new tranny.... (just a wild guess...)

 

Do you know how to shift (especially towing a load)? If so, and don't mind doing so, manuals are really the way to go. Cheaper to maintain, and generally more reliable. When shifted properly, the clutches last a hell of a long time. 225,000 on my stock clutch and it looks like new. The flywheel is shot, but that is different .

Just don't expect to win any drag races with one. I would pick a manual over an automatic anyday unless I was drag racing. That is about the only time I would ever get an auto.

 

I definitely know how to shift but the towing will be new to me. What is the secret to shifting when towing? What is most important?
I will not be drag racing with this truck ever.

 

There isn't much of anything different really, you just have to watch your shift points closer.

I feel a strong urge to go into a small rant, so I will just for fun.

I have found that very few people know how to shift correctly. They overrev, lug the engine, shift at inappropriate times, ride the clutch, dump the clutch, or my favorite of all is when they get the car bucking nearly uncontrollably until they push the clutch back in because they are afraid of the skinny pedal.

Shifting my truck is really easy. I can shift to 4th gear without touching the gas. When just letting the clutch out in each gear and then shifting to the next, the engine doesn't start to really lug until 4th gear. I learned this when my TPS went bad and I couldn't get off idle. Anyone can shift a diesel, but do it right? My escort is a prime example. It has a Mitsubishi engine that doesn't make *any* power below 2,000rpms. Yes, it will lug in 1st gear below 2,000rpms. My dad, who has been driving manuals for twice as long as I have been alive cannot shift this car for anything. He either overrevs it, or gets it bucking like you kicked it in the nuts. Some people just can't get it. Tell him and he gets extremely unhappy.

Everyone has different opinions, but as far as these trucks go, this is mine. Ricer cars (including my mustang) are a totally different thing and I won't even touch those.

The first key is to not slip the clutch. We have more torque at idle than most cars do at peak. I rev mine up to about 1,500 and then let out on the clutch. Don't dump it, but don't slip it. Just a firm, quick release. As a truck driver once told me, in the time it takes you to say bull****, you should either have the clutch released or depressed. No longer, no shorter. Doing this, my truck drops about 300rpms and goes. No lugging, no overreving, and most importantly, no clutch slipping. These trucks do not require you to slip the clutch like a car. If you do, you are probably doing something wrong.

Deciding when to shift depends on the factors of load and how big of a hurry you are in. Empty I shift at 2,000 or less. Loaded, 2,000-2,500. I tend not to be in a hurry. If I was in a stock truck towing 15,000 up an 8% grade, I would probably be real close to the rev limiter.

The key is to find the right point to shift that you won't lug the engine, be in the powerband when you do shift, and do it at the right time to keep control. When getting your CDL, this is a big thing. The DOT has requirements for when you can and can't shift as if you shift at the wrong times, they consider you not in control. For example, coasting in neutral is a big no-no, but they also frown on shifting through intersections or on railroad tracks. I think just about everyone does, but that is what they say.

Personally my biggest thing in a truck like these is slipping the clutch. Just don't do it. Ford gave us granny gear and 4.10's for a purpose. If you are pulling a good amount of weight, some slipping may be necessary. Just be sure you are in the right gear at the right time (don't try to pass someone in 5th gear going 20mph) and take your time. Towing a lot of weight gives you a great opportunity to cause damage if you decide to do something against your better judgement. Pulling a trailer up a mountain is not the best time to practice with powershifting and side stepping the clutch.

A lot of people can shift diesels correctly. They are really forgiving. In all my years, I have only seen one nonracer shift a car correctly and that was my uncle. He bought the escort that I now own brand new. The car turned over 220,000 miles a few days ago on the stock clutch. Stock clutch. This man knows how to shift. How did he do it? He revved the car up to about 2,500rpms, slipped it to about 1,800rpms, and shifted at 2,500rpms again. This is exactly what this car was made for. It shifted so smooth that you thought it was an auto. Do this in one of our trucks and you will be putting a new clutch in short order.

 

Wow, thanks I've driven A lot of manual transmissions but not a diesel and not a heavy pick -up like a 350. Actually I did drive the 5 speed diesel 350 from Minnesota a week ago that I ended up not buying. The guy told me when your not pulling or hauling to just start out in 2nd gear. CDL? I need to get my CDL to own a F350? I think I know what you mean by slipping the clutch but can you explain so I am sure?

 

Yeah, 1st gear is about useless without a load. You can start out in 2nd without any problems. Ford now actually says that in the owners manual on the 6 speeds. They are calling 1st a "low" gear now. I will say that when using 1st, you will beat about any car 0-5mph.

No, no CDL, I was just using that for an example. Although the DOT can get pretty retarded, the old school drivers know more about driving than we could ever know. Afterall, they do it about everyday of their lives.

Slipping the clutch may be a little hard to explain, but I will try using two methods. Hopefully one works.

The clutch and flywheel work nearly the same as a brake pad and a rotor. When you push lightly on your brakes, the brake pads contact the rotor and put slight friction against it. The pad is "slipping" on the rotor because the rotor is still turning. When you lock the wheels up, the pad is no long slipping because it now has enough grip to stock the rotor from turning. It has made the rotor turn the same speed it is (0mph). When you are not touching the brakes, it isn't slipping because they are not in contact. It is only slipping when they are touching going two different speeds. This wears the pad and the rotor when they are slipping.

The clutch has two specific points in it's travel of interest. All the way to the floor and all the way released. To the floor, the clutch it completely disengaged. All the way up the clutch is engaged. Inbetween these two points your foot is on the pedal either pushing it down or letting it up. While you are inbetween these two points the clutch is slipping because it isn't fully disengaged or fully engaged. The clutch and flywheel (brake pad and rotor) are turning at two different speeds. Your foot is moving it from one position to the other. The clutch slips to make everything smooth. If it didn't slip, you would instantly be engaged or disengaged, which would be one jerky ride. A pulling clutch is a good example of this.

Don't ever do this on purpose, but you might have before on accident and understand what I mean. If you are in gear and start letting out on the clutch, what happens? The truck starts to roll forward. If you were to hit the gas when the truck just starts to roll, the engine will rev and the truck will move slightly faster forward. What is happening? The clutch is slipping. The engine is turning fast and the clutch is turning slow. Because you have the clutch pedal halfway to the floor, there isn't enough pressure on the clutch to lock to the flywheel (comparable to not using enough pressure to lock the brakes, in this case we want to "lock the brakes" everytime) If you were to suddenly let out on the clutch "the brakes would lock", truck would lunge forward, and all would suddently be well. When the clutch is all the way engaged, if you hit the gas, the truck would have to move faster before the engine would rev up. This is because the clutch and flywheel are now locked together and can't slip.

Basically, as long as the clutch is all the way engaged or disengaged you are not causing any wear. The points inbetween are all wearing the clutch and flywheel. When you push in on the clutch, you want it done quickly, the same as when you release it. If you go slow, the clutch is slipping because there isn't enough pressure to lock it to the flywheel.

 

That makes perfect sense to me, great description!

 

Back from the dead I know, but I need some advice.
I have the opportunity to buy 1 of 2 pretty solid trucks, a '97 F250 XLT with 72,000 miles with an AUTOMATIC for 12K OR the same year and model with 111,000K with a MANUAL for 13K. The auto sounds like it could be a better truck, 2 owner mid western, old man owned, properly serviced. The manual seems good too however, a few more miles, and he said a 3rd gear synchro is starting to crunch.
My history with automatics and diesels in not good. I bought a '01 Cummins with 106K and the tranny went out 2 months later. I hear that Fords automatics were also notoriously weak for the torque.
Anyway, IF the auto was properly maintained are they okay? I know if it goes out, I could do the manual swap. Thoughts?

 

Respectfully, resurrecting an 8 year old thread is not necessary. Just use the information provided to help guide your decision. There is also a guide to purchasing a used truck to help you decide if the truck is in good condition and right for your needs. If you require additional information then feel free to start a new thread
Personally I would look at and drive the manual first as it would be my preference. If it didn't pan out then go look at the automatic.

 

Newb apologies, This was the closest thread to my question that I could find using the search. I have read the thread which you are referring to (among others) and though helpful across a myriad of issues, I was looking for considerations regarding the E4OD.
Unfortunately, the 2 trucks are states away so a comparison is not in my future, but your points are well taken, and my post perhaps premature.

 

What do you want?? Manual or auto? Most people have a preference. If you want an auto, you just need to know sometime it will need work. They all do. The manual won't last forever either, and sounds like it needs work already.




I'm an auto guy, and wouldn't own a manual in a truck.

 

I want the manual, I like to drive. But as I mentioned earlier, the swap would be fairly straightforward should the automatic go south. I'll glean some more info from the sellers and take it from there, thanks.

 

I haul 18.5K and got stopped on a steep hill the other day. There is no way I would have wanted a manuel. Also I've been in a lot of traffic jams lately, I wish you luck with that manuel!!!

 

Sorry about the traffic, not only do I not haul anything more than a small stock trailer, I live in Vermont and haven't sat in a traffic jam for over 5 years!