400m problem
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Joined: May 2011
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From: Wrights community
ok. I went out there and tried it. It stays on the #1 plug tab for 10 degrees, from 10 BTDC to TDC. I put everything back together and tried cranking it. It cranked and started backfiring again. It is more of a pop and spewing the gas out than backfiring. I haven't seen any fire yet....YET. But there is a slight hint of smoke coming out of the intake manifold... I am tired of this...
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From: chicago burbs
i think you're looking at the secondary side(rotor & cap) of the ignition system?
it's the primary side that determines when the spark is delivered, whether it's a point system, magnetic or optical trigger
are you trying to static time the engine?
it's the primary side that determines when the spark is delivered, whether it's a point system, magnetic or optical trigger
are you trying to static time the engine?
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From: Wrights community
uhh....What does Static time mean? What are you calling the primary side? I am aligning the crank at 10 degrees BTDC(valve cover sticker says 12 though) and the rotor is pointing at plug #1. How is it still backfiring? Could it be a valve not sealing? Broken valve spring? Or the crank and cam not in time? Would a timing set help? thanks for your input.
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
Statically setting the timing uses only a test lamp and lining up the components, and this kind of sounds like what you're trying to do (although I haven't seen any mention of such a lamp).
IMHO this is fine for setting the initial timing to get an engine at least running, but a timing light is then used to more accurately set the timing.
Until a timing light is used, you're just pissin' into the wind.
Here, read this:
Ignition Timing - Les Bengtson
IMHO this is fine for setting the initial timing to get an engine at least running, but a timing light is then used to more accurately set the timing.
Until a timing light is used, you're just pissin' into the wind.
Here, read this:
Ignition Timing - Les Bengtson
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From: chicago burbs
you may be 180* out on the distributor drop in. the crank turns 2 full revolutions for evry single revolution of the cam & distributor, there are 2 Top Dead Centers for a complete 4 cycles... you may be firing the plug during the overlap area of the cam when both valves are slightly open
you need to to the 'finger in the hole' method to see if you're on the compression stroke when the rotor is pointing at #1. take out the #1 spark plug(front passenger side US) and trip the solenoid to crank the engine over(ignition key out or off) until the compression blows your finger out of the spark plug hole. now turn the crank bolt with a hand socket to line up the timing marks, TDC or a little before is fine. if you passed TDC while cranking you need to go around just under 2 full turns on the crank and align the marks, if you don't pass TDC on the first time around and keep going until TDC comes around again you'll be in valve overlap at the beginning of the intake stroke...
which is where i'm guessing you are now if there's nothing wrong with the engine itself. so you're correct that there may be a valve open, but it's supposed to be if you're 180* out
you need to to the 'finger in the hole' method to see if you're on the compression stroke when the rotor is pointing at #1. take out the #1 spark plug(front passenger side US) and trip the solenoid to crank the engine over(ignition key out or off) until the compression blows your finger out of the spark plug hole. now turn the crank bolt with a hand socket to line up the timing marks, TDC or a little before is fine. if you passed TDC while cranking you need to go around just under 2 full turns on the crank and align the marks, if you don't pass TDC on the first time around and keep going until TDC comes around again you'll be in valve overlap at the beginning of the intake stroke...
which is where i'm guessing you are now if there's nothing wrong with the engine itself. so you're correct that there may be a valve open, but it's supposed to be if you're 180* out
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From: chicago burbs
BTW, the primary side is the low voltage side of the ignition, the battery, ignition switch, wiring harness, points/condenser or other trigger mechanism in the distrutor, MSD box.. and the low voltage side of the coil
the secondary side is the high voltage side of the coil, plug & coil wires, dist cap, rotor and spark plugs
it's the primary side trigger mechanism that actually determines the exact moment that the plugs fire. the primary side charges the coil, when the trigger breaks off the charge... achtung baby!
by turning the distributor you're really aligning the trigger mechanism to correct position to fire the plug when the crank is where you want it. the secondary side components need to be in the ballpark but that's why the rotor has a wide edge and the cap terminals are not sharp points, there's some leeway there. this is getting into rotor phase but that's a touchy subject with some guys so we'll leave it there for today
the secondary side is the high voltage side of the coil, plug & coil wires, dist cap, rotor and spark plugs
it's the primary side trigger mechanism that actually determines the exact moment that the plugs fire. the primary side charges the coil, when the trigger breaks off the charge... achtung baby!
by turning the distributor you're really aligning the trigger mechanism to correct position to fire the plug when the crank is where you want it. the secondary side components need to be in the ballpark but that's why the rotor has a wide edge and the cap terminals are not sharp points, there's some leeway there. this is getting into rotor phase but that's a touchy subject with some guys so we'll leave it there for today
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From: Wrights community
I will check about the compression stroke today. I haven't touched the distributor as far as turning it. Can it jump 180*? I doubt it is a valve or spring, but if it's not the compression stroke and distributor not being together, could it be a bad coil, ignition box, and/or solenoid? I replaced the solenoid and ignition box, but both were from another vehicle.
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From: Denver Metro Area, CO
No, it can't jump 180* by itself, you just have to ensure you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.
Most people here are going to tell you to verify your ignition timing is correct before doing anything else, and this is best done using a timing light.
Most people here are going to tell you to verify your ignition timing is correct before doing anything else, and this is best done using a timing light.
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From: Wrights community
how can the timing be off so bad if I haven't touched it then? all I did was take the cap off(wires still attached) and looked at the inside of it. It has the magnetic pickup thing in it. If it aint the distributor, what else can be out of time now? thanks for all the help. The truck was running two weeks ago. Now it hardly cranks and backfires when it does.
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From: chicago burbs
i was thinking you had the dizzy out or the engine apart or something, maybe i caught the thread in midstream...
what i would do is start a new thread and from the beginning like you just explained, that this was a running engine that all by itself overnight won't start. this thread is several years old, might be why you're not getting more help
in the meantime, charge the battery, pull all the spark plugs out of it and have a look at them. keep them in order so you know where they came from, maybe there's a pattern that can help diagnose. while the plugs are out crank the engine over to blow out the cylinders. a bonus to that would be to disconnect the fuel line and run it into a clean catch container to see what / if anything your pumping to the carb. IIRC the standard is at least 1 pint in 20 seconds. you said you just did a new fuel pump? all the more reason to check it again, happens all the time a new fuel pump goes bad
have you tried a shot of starting fluid?
have you checked for spark from the coil or a spark plug wire?
how many miles on the engine, has the timing chain ever been done?
what i would do is start a new thread and from the beginning like you just explained, that this was a running engine that all by itself overnight won't start. this thread is several years old, might be why you're not getting more help
in the meantime, charge the battery, pull all the spark plugs out of it and have a look at them. keep them in order so you know where they came from, maybe there's a pattern that can help diagnose. while the plugs are out crank the engine over to blow out the cylinders. a bonus to that would be to disconnect the fuel line and run it into a clean catch container to see what / if anything your pumping to the carb. IIRC the standard is at least 1 pint in 20 seconds. you said you just did a new fuel pump? all the more reason to check it again, happens all the time a new fuel pump goes bad
have you tried a shot of starting fluid?
have you checked for spark from the coil or a spark plug wire?
how many miles on the engine, has the timing chain ever been done?
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From: chicago burbs
yup, bring the cap & wires inside and let them dry out in a warm place like the furnace room. if they're old, cracking & generally shot get a new set. on a budget dry them out, re-install them and soak down the cap & wires with Final Net hairspray to seal them from moisture
1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 & watch the rotation
1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 & watch the rotation
Senior User
Joined: May 2011
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From: Wrights community
I put a new water pump on it, and a few months ago put a new fuel pump on it. It pumps(enough to fill the filter pretty quickly). I checked the plugs, and they were a little oily, but what's 34 years old that doesn't leak and isn't loose? I don't know if the previous owner replaced the dash or ran it over 999,999, but it has 34,000 on it right now. It might be the wires being bad, or the cap. I looked though, but probably overlooked. I am considering a full rebuild anyhow, but if I redo the whole ignition, ignition timing, and cam and crank timing, would that help?
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From: chicago burbs
the less you do now will help, the more you do will raise more questions of whether it's right or not. if it ran, drove and shut off then wouldn't start... there's only 1 thing wrong with it, that's what you have to find is what that 1 thing is
spark fuel & compression are the three things that you need to run an engine, air is free for now. i forgot to mention earlier that while you have the battery fully charged and the spark plugs out, that's the time to do a compression test. first disconnect the wire that comes from the harness to the + side of the coil, or pop the horsehoe clip off, or ground the coil wire. open the throttle at the carb and slide a long thin screwdriver all the way down the carb barrel so the throttle can't close all the way, then check the compression of each cylinder with a test gauge. crank each cylinder 4 pulses and write down the findings
so does the thing have spark or not?
spark fuel & compression are the three things that you need to run an engine, air is free for now. i forgot to mention earlier that while you have the battery fully charged and the spark plugs out, that's the time to do a compression test. first disconnect the wire that comes from the harness to the + side of the coil, or pop the horsehoe clip off, or ground the coil wire. open the throttle at the carb and slide a long thin screwdriver all the way down the carb barrel so the throttle can't close all the way, then check the compression of each cylinder with a test gauge. crank each cylinder 4 pulses and write down the findings
so does the thing have spark or not?