rusty70f100
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From: Glenwood, IA
rusty70f100
<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%">Rusty, just wondering if you forgot about me. Could you please run this over the desk dyno for me please.
428 with .030 over bore
COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter, Advertised Duration 262/ 270, Lift .513/ .520
TRW forged pistons. He is going to mill them out to match the combustion camber and get the compression down to 9.5:1.
Its getting file fit rings??
The heads are c8ae-h with the CJ size valves and exhaust porting but I chose to use the smaller port in order to keep the low end torque.
It is getting a full internal balance job (no more special flex plate).
I am using edelbrocks RPM intake, Holley 770 street advenger carb with a 2" carb spacer, Hedman Elite Hedders with 2 1/2" straight pipes.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
428 with .030 over bore
COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter, Advertised Duration 262/ 270, Lift .513/ .520
TRW forged pistons. He is going to mill them out to match the combustion camber and get the compression down to 9.5:1.
Its getting file fit rings??
The heads are c8ae-h with the CJ size valves and exhaust porting but I chose to use the smaller port in order to keep the low end torque.
It is getting a full internal balance job (no more special flex plate).
I am using edelbrocks RPM intake, Holley 770 street advenger carb with a 2" carb spacer, Hedman Elite Hedders with 2 1/2" straight pipes.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
Ok. That'll be:
364hp @ 4500rpm
505ft-lbs @ 2500rpm
Three things I would note here:
1. You should have port matched the head to the intake ports, as well as ported both the intake and exhaust. You'll note that the intake manifold has a larger port opening than the heads. This creates restriction.
2. It needs a bigger cam.
3. It really needs a bigger cam.
364hp @ 4500rpm
505ft-lbs @ 2500rpm
Three things I would note here:
1. You should have port matched the head to the intake ports, as well as ported both the intake and exhaust. You'll note that the intake manifold has a larger port opening than the heads. This creates restriction.
2. It needs a bigger cam.
3. It really needs a bigger cam.
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From: Glenwood, IA
Kurt, can you explain the port matching with the whole intake thing. I dont have the engine together yet, so its not to late. Is there a thread on the proper way to do this?
And just how much would this improve the numbers?
Thanks again.
And just how much would this improve the numbers?
Thanks again.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
How do the rules limit the cam? Lift, or duration? You do know, that the FE has the unique ability to run without oil in the lifters, since it doesn't oil through the pushrods. What this lets you do, is get around the "hydraulic lifter" rule. Basically, you block off the lifter oil galleries, take the check ball out of the lifters, and run your mechanical cam. Set your valve lash as necessary, but with the lifter plunger at the bottom of it's travel. Then the tech inspector will be able to compress the lifters, just as he should, but you'll be running a solid cam! Heh...
Anyway. You want to radius off the bottom where it overlaps. And it should help a lot with airflow to not have that sharp edge there.
Anyway. You want to radius off the bottom where it overlaps. And it should help a lot with airflow to not have that sharp edge there.
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From: Glenwood, IA
Thats a pretty cool trick! So what cam?
Well the rules state: Hyd. cam and the big factor 17" vacuum @ 1000RPM.
This is a stock class. But I know I can knock off those bow ties and rams.
Are you refering to the bottom edge of the gasket surface. Should I use the gasket and open it up that size? If so, would I make a radius from the gasket opening to the exsisting port? Kind of like a flare? And then the same with the intake?
Well the rules state: Hyd. cam and the big factor 17" vacuum @ 1000RPM.
This is a stock class. But I know I can knock off those bow ties and rams.
Are you refering to the bottom edge of the gasket surface. Should I use the gasket and open it up that size? If so, would I make a radius from the gasket opening to the exsisting port? Kind of like a flare? And then the same with the intake?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
That's it? They dont limit lift or duration? You could have some fun with this. You can play with the vacuum advance / initial timing and get your vacuum. There will be others (purists) who will strongly disagree, but you can plug your vacuum advance into full manifold vacuum and this will give you plenty of vacuum at idle....
I was thinking a Comp 33-244-4 (270S) would do the trick. However, I make no promises or guarantees with regards to vacuum. The trick I mentioned above *might* be good enough to make it work, then again it might not. Your call.
I would use the gasket as a reference. Place the gasket on the intake manifold, and use the gasket to mark how big the port is there. Then, go over to the cylinder head, and mark the ports appropriately. Simple!
Another question:
Is it in the rules anywhere as to what fuel you use?
I was thinking a Comp 33-244-4 (270S) would do the trick. However, I make no promises or guarantees with regards to vacuum. The trick I mentioned above *might* be good enough to make it work, then again it might not. Your call.
I would use the gasket as a reference. Place the gasket on the intake manifold, and use the gasket to mark how big the port is there. Then, go over to the cylinder head, and mark the ports appropriately. Simple!
Another question:
Is it in the rules anywhere as to what fuel you use?
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From: Glenwood, IA
Here is a run down on the rules:
*factory ignition *dual plane intake *single 4v. *factory iron heads *17" vacuum @ 1000RPM *full exhaust *pump gas *no rollers
How much diff. would the 33-244-4 make? The specs are so close.
Can you explain what I need to do with to the vacuum advance. Is it simply by using a sronger vacuum (directly on the manifold ) that it makes it possible to get more advanced timing? There for being more on the retarded side at 1000RPM making higher vacuum? Am I close the way I am thinking?
Thinking is the hardest work there is!! No Crap!
*factory ignition *dual plane intake *single 4v. *factory iron heads *17" vacuum @ 1000RPM *full exhaust *pump gas *no rollers
How much diff. would the 33-244-4 make? The specs are so close.
Can you explain what I need to do with to the vacuum advance. Is it simply by using a sronger vacuum (directly on the manifold ) that it makes it possible to get more advanced timing? There for being more on the retarded side at 1000RPM making higher vacuum? Am I close the way I am thinking?
Thinking is the hardest work there is!! No Crap!
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Essentially, you plug the vacuum advance into full manifold vacuum so that the vacuum advance is advancing at idle. That's it. It pulls in the extra advance, the vacuum goes up, and the tech inspector sees it. Which of course, lets you get away with a bigger cam.
At 1000rpm, I would think that cam would be able to make 17" easy with the vacuum advance mod.
The specs are close, but the one I listed has more intake duration. It also has more lift. More lift, with the same duration = more agressive cam.
Does pump gas mean only gasoline? Or could it mean E85, if there's a pump close by? I mean, everything's open to interpretation, right?
Does full exhaust mean you need to run mufflers? Or just have pipes going to the rear of the vehicle?
At 1000rpm, I would think that cam would be able to make 17" easy with the vacuum advance mod.
The specs are close, but the one I listed has more intake duration. It also has more lift. More lift, with the same duration = more agressive cam.
Does pump gas mean only gasoline? Or could it mean E85, if there's a pump close by? I mean, everything's open to interpretation, right?
Does full exhaust mean you need to run mufflers? Or just have pipes going to the rear of the vehicle?
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From: Glenwood, IA
Well I sopose your right, E85 would work. It says no alcohol or NOS, natrually asperated. What is its advantage of E85?
As far as the exhaust, they state full to rear with 12" mufflers. But, I run 2 1/2" straight pipes and have a set of 12" glasspacks that I can pin on the end of my tail pipes if need be. They look kind of funny but it makes the requirments. No one has required me to do so yet.
The funny thing about there rules is that about the only thing they check is vacuum, ignition and intake. And this leaves the door open for cheaters. My thing is I would love to beat them with out cheating. The main reason is, it is 1 chevy and 1 dodge at the top of the class. and I know that they are running roller set ups and such. I would really love to show them that a good old FE can do by the law. I guess with that said, I am back to the hyd. cam?! But as far as the whole E85 thing, that is "everything's open to interpretation". As an old timer mud drager told me, "dont look for whats in the rules, its whats not in them".
As far as the exhaust, they state full to rear with 12" mufflers. But, I run 2 1/2" straight pipes and have a set of 12" glasspacks that I can pin on the end of my tail pipes if need be. They look kind of funny but it makes the requirments. No one has required me to do so yet.
The funny thing about there rules is that about the only thing they check is vacuum, ignition and intake. And this leaves the door open for cheaters. My thing is I would love to beat them with out cheating. The main reason is, it is 1 chevy and 1 dodge at the top of the class. and I know that they are running roller set ups and such. I would really love to show them that a good old FE can do by the law. I guess with that said, I am back to the hyd. cam?! But as far as the whole E85 thing, that is "everything's open to interpretation". As an old timer mud drager told me, "dont look for whats in the rules, its whats not in them".
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Now you're thinking! E85 is, depending on the season, 70-85% ethanol, 15-30% gasoline, and upwards of 105 octane. Then, you wouldn't need to worry about lowering your compression. You will need to richen it up about 30% though. I would call it pump gas...
Factory iron heads 'eh? Well, if you've got the money:
http://www.doveengineparts.com/
They'll make you pretty much any factory Ford FE head you want, from original tooling, with your desired date code and casting number. The articles in the "Jim's tool box" section are interesting.
I have my theories on glasspacks. That is, to step up the pipe size right before the glasspack, then back down after. That way it wont present as much of a restriction. Plus, do not run the glasspacks with louvers. Run the ones with the perforated tube. This would be Thrush or the like.
I say, if they're going to cheat, cheat back!
Factory iron heads 'eh? Well, if you've got the money:
http://www.doveengineparts.com/
They'll make you pretty much any factory Ford FE head you want, from original tooling, with your desired date code and casting number. The articles in the "Jim's tool box" section are interesting.
I have my theories on glasspacks. That is, to step up the pipe size right before the glasspack, then back down after. That way it wont present as much of a restriction. Plus, do not run the glasspacks with louvers. Run the ones with the perforated tube. This would be Thrush or the like.
I say, if they're going to cheat, cheat back!