oldgold60,

Your calculations are correct! There is alot of mis-information being given in this thread. I will try and clear up the calculations for you.

Vehicle load capacity and trailer towing weight are controlled by 4 numbers;
GVWR; Front GAWR; Rear GAWR; GCWR

For your 2004 F250 PSD:
GVWR = 8800
Front GAWR = 4800
Rear GAWR = 6080
GCWR = 20,000

The actual weight of your truck is 7880 so your max payload left is 8800 - 7880 = 920. 920lb is the maximum amount of weight you can add to your truck from other gear or "pin weight' before your reach Max GVWR rating.

Your Front GAWR 4800 - 4640 = 160lbs left that can be loaded on the front axle before reaching its limits.

Your Rear GAWR 6080 - 3240 = 2840lb is left before you reach the rear axle load limits.

The GCWR 20,000 - 7880(truck weight) = 12,120 max trailer weight left, However, you will exceed the GVWR or the GAWR before you reach 12,120 trailer weight so you will Not be able to tow a trailer this large without exceeding the stickered Max weight ratings.

Now here is the importnt point with ALL of these numbers, Whichever 1 of these Weight Ratings you reach FIRST is the limiting factor for the whole truck and that particular load.

Since you only have 920lb of payload capacity left before you reach Max rate GVWR, then you are correct the max pin weight Cannot Exceed 920Lb.
With a 5th or gooseneck, pin weight should be 15-25% of actual loaded trailer weight.
So the max 5th or gooseneck trailer weight you can have is 3680 - 6,133lbs (for a TT tongue weight should be 10-15% of actual loaded trailer weight, so max TT trailer weight would be 6133 - 9200lbs).

With that being said, you need to hook up the loaded trailer and weigh the complete rig at the CAT scale to make sure that with 920lb pin weight you have not exceed the Front GAWR since you only had 160lbs left to work with and some of the pin weight is carried by the front axle.
Also you need to look at the max weight rating of your tires (it is on the sidewall). Whatever your actual axle weight is when weighed at the CAT scale then each tire on that axle is carrying 1/2 that weight. (in your case your trucks front tires are each carrying 2640lbs)

Here is a direct quote from the FMC Towing Guide:
"Note: Be sure the addition of tongue load or king pin weight does not cause the key towing vehicle weight limits (GVWR and Rear GAWR) to be exceeded.
Remember, GVWR and GAWR are found on the vehicle’s Safety Compliance Certification Label. If either of these limits is exceeded, you should go with a
larger vehicle or a smaller trailer."

Here is a link to how and figure trailer loads using Max GVWR, GAWR & GCWR
www.clubfte.com/users/monsta/safeloading.html

Here is the link to the 2004 FMC Towing Guide
http://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/r...04_default.asp

Now, before your mom totally panics, the Only difference between the 04 F250 & F350 is taller(+2-inches) rear blocks under the leaf springs and a stickered GVWR of 9800-9900lbs (depending on configuration) and usually higher GAWR do to increased spring rating, higher tire rating & GVWR. Also the GCWR of an 04 F350 SRW is the same 20,000.
Mechanically the two trucks are identical(ie axles, brakes etc). So from a safety standpoint you will not be overloading your truck by using a higher GVWR of 9800-9900lbs. SAFETY NOTE HERE! The springs may need to be increased to increase the GAWR from the F250 up to the F350 ratings and the tires will have to be upgraded from load D to load E to safely carry the payload.
Using a GVWR of 9900lbs then, 9900-7880 = 2020lbs left for payload & pin weight.
With a pin weight of 2020lbs you could have a 5th or gooseneck between 8080-13,467lbs. Obviously you could exceed the GCWR before you exceeded the GVWR.

Now just to throw a couple of additional options in the mix to complicate it a little. The stickered rating on the door frame is the max safe load limit you can carry as your truck was built by FMC. Exceeding the stickered ratings means that if you are pulled over and weighed or involved in an accident you can be ticketed for being overloaded.
In addition, just to complicate matters even more, in several states you can legally register your truck for whatever GVWR you want and then legally tow or haul that amount. (The higher the registered weight rating, the more the registration costs). So if your home state lets you register your truck for a higher GVWR then you would be legal to tow or carry the higher load in all states.

Some states are very strict on weight capacities and towing capacities and pull over and weight trucks and trailers going down the road, other states could care less. So know the laws and attitudes of the states you tow through and make sure you have the proper ratings when pulling through those states. Texas for one is very strict on weight ratings.
One more fly in the oinment is that with RV's many states ignore RV's and they can do anything they want, some states however are cracking down on overloaded RV's as well.

Hope this helps

 

wow! now thats a reply! nice job (blackhat620)

 

I have seen and heard more than a few complaints like this about the newer trucks. They weigh a lot to begin with. . .the SC wieghs more, and more so with the PSD, and even more with the 4x4 gear. . .

I beleive, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the GVWR is based on the lightest equiped vehicle of that class ie., 5.4l manual standard cab long bed 2wd. . .which probably weighs under 6,000

Wait, enough rambling from me. . .

Do you already have the 5'er? Could you get something similar in a hitch setup? With a nice weight distributing hitch you'd only have a couple hundred pounds on the back which leaves you a bit of cargo capacity

 

Where are you guys getting this 15 - 20% pin weight number for fifth wheels and goosenecks ? I don't think mine is even 5% for my 5er camper and it handles fine. If my pin weight is really that much less it hasn't had any negative effect. Probably best to get a number from the trailer manufacturer if you want accurate numbers for your figuring.

 

That's what they are supposed to be 95van... if its as low as 5% that's bad. You need more weight there. 20% is very normal. 10% is for tagalong trailers. Unless you know for sure through weighing at a scale, you need to count at the highest, which is 25% of the trailer's weight supported by the fifth wheel hitch. I know my gooseneck puts around 20% on my truck. If yours really only has 5% you need to reload your trailer to redistribute the load farther forward so that you get more load on the truck.

 

The industry standard is:

Pin Weight -for a 5th or Gooseneck is 15-25% of Actual loaded trailer weight.
Tongue Weight -for a TT is 10-15% of Actual loaded trailer weight.

This can be found in the FMC "Towing Guide" or on any trailer or RV towing site or manufacture.
http://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/r...07_default.asp

If the Pin weight or Tongue weight is less than this tow vehicle and trailer stability and tracking are severly effected. A light tongue weight on a TT causes severe trailer sway. A light pin weight causes vehicle handling problems do to up lift at the rear of the vehicle.

The only accurate way to know your actual Pin or Tongue weight is to hitch up your trailer loaded as you normally have it with your tow vehicle loaded as normal, and then go to you local CAT scale and weight the whole rig, and then unhitch the trailer and weight just your tow vehicle. From these numbers you can then determine your actual Pin or Tongue weight.

95van, If you have not weighed your rig in this manner then you will not know the actual pin weight you have. I doubt your pin weight is only 5% of the actual trailer weight, if it where you would have severe handling issues.

Hope this helps

 

There's a lot to think about here, that's for sure.

Spring options and tire load ratings in particular. I recall a woman who bought a KZ Escalade 5'r that the dealership would NOT allow her to tow with her '06 F350 with an amazing spring pack on it - it barely squatted at all. HOWEVER - some reason or another she was running load range 'C' tires on the machine...
The sidewalls were absolutely mashed....

 

Post # 16 by Blackhat620 is the best expanation for G.V.W.R. and tow ratings I've read and very correct!. Just remember that big 5th wheels are heavy. It's like putting on a camper in the back and towing a trailer.

 

your thinking of the gross combined vehicle weight rating. gvwr is just the truck and the load in the bed. and stuff in the cab!