rough start lotta smoke ???
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 5
From: Johnson City, TN.
rough start lotta smoke ???
My truck is acting a little like Miller's did in his post "figure this one out?". My truck does not die though. I have a '97 5 speed manual with 4" exhaust no cat Afe filter, no other major mods. When I crank it it will idle rough and smoke. When I put it in gear and drive it smokes blue/white especially right before the turbo kicks in at around 2300 RPM. Eventually it will warm up and when it hits 2500 RPM after feeling like it is missing it will take off like a rocket and will blow ALOT of smoke and then clear up as if nothing was wrong. It tends to do this everyday but if I let it sit for more than 1 day it gets worse and the more days I let it sit the more smoke it lets out before it clears up. I changed the CPS this weekend after recomendations from here and that did nothing to help the problem.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,903
Likes: 1
From: MICHIGAN
Sounds like Glow plug (GP) or glow plug relay(GPR). Next cold start use a screwdriver to short out the 2 big posts on the GPR for 45-60 seconds. Jump in the truck and start it. If it starts right up but still idles rough then you need a GP or 2.
Look here:
http://andersonimprovements.com/hobbies/truck/glowplugsandrelay.html
The GPR is locted under the decorative cover on top the engine, you need to remove it.
Check the HPOP level next cold start:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ont-start.html
Look here:
http://andersonimprovements.com/hobbies/truck/glowplugsandrelay.html
The GPR is locted under the decorative cover on top the engine, you need to remove it.
Check the HPOP level next cold start:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...ont-start.html
Last edited by Cuda_jim; Apr 23, 2007 at 04:19 PM.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 5
From: Johnson City, TN.
I checked the GP's and one was 1.3 two were 0.9 four were 1.0 and one was 4.5. I think that the one that was 4.5 is bad. Do you agree. Of course it is the one on the drivers side closest to the firewall. At least that is where it was on the connectors. Can I assume that is the GP that is closest to firewall?
Also a couple of the connector plugs had a little oil residue in them when I unplugged them. They were not covered but had very little in there. Is that a bad sign?
I jumped the relay with a screwdriver this morning and could not really tell if there was a difference. It was alot warmer this morning but it didn't miss as long either.
I assume that I need to check the HPOP level when it is cold. What do I do if it is low? From what I understand it uses the engine oil.
Sorry for so many questions and topics but I want to thank all of you guys for the help. You are great and I love this site.
Also a couple of the connector plugs had a little oil residue in them when I unplugged them. They were not covered but had very little in there. Is that a bad sign?
I jumped the relay with a screwdriver this morning and could not really tell if there was a difference. It was alot warmer this morning but it didn't miss as long either.
I assume that I need to check the HPOP level when it is cold. What do I do if it is low? From what I understand it uses the engine oil.
Sorry for so many questions and topics but I want to thank all of you guys for the help. You are great and I love this site.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,903
Likes: 1
From: MICHIGAN
Yep, it's the last one in the head like you said. If you go to all the trouble of getting the v-cover off, might as well replace all 4 don't ya think?
The oil in the connectors is common. Find the oil leak and fix it. It may even be from a previous leak that's already repaired. Were the connector socket/pins OK, no burnt or corrosion. Clean em up really good and you're good to go. Check the UVC (Under Valve Cover) gasket/harness too once you get the v-cover off. Then re-check the gp's to the engine block. Compare your findings from 1st ohms you got. They should be very close. If not you may have some extra resistance in the wiring. Hope that makes sense??
Chances are your GPR is in good shape, you didn't get much difference. I'm betting on weak/bad gp's.
If your HPOP is low, refill it with engine oil, about 1/2 inch from the top. I hope this is not the cast though. There is a check valve leaking and will require a bit more work to fix. Let us know.
PS, Do not use Autolite GP's.
Glow Plug
(AutoZone) ZD-10 or ZD-11 (Beru plugs)
(Ford) F4TZ-12A342-A
(International) 1820697C2
The oil in the connectors is common. Find the oil leak and fix it. It may even be from a previous leak that's already repaired. Were the connector socket/pins OK, no burnt or corrosion. Clean em up really good and you're good to go. Check the UVC (Under Valve Cover) gasket/harness too once you get the v-cover off. Then re-check the gp's to the engine block. Compare your findings from 1st ohms you got. They should be very close. If not you may have some extra resistance in the wiring. Hope that makes sense??
Chances are your GPR is in good shape, you didn't get much difference. I'm betting on weak/bad gp's.
If your HPOP is low, refill it with engine oil, about 1/2 inch from the top. I hope this is not the cast though. There is a check valve leaking and will require a bit more work to fix. Let us know.
PS, Do not use Autolite GP's.
Glow Plug
(AutoZone) ZD-10 or ZD-11 (Beru plugs)
(Ford) F4TZ-12A342-A
(International) 1820697C2
Last edited by Cuda_jim; Apr 24, 2007 at 09:25 AM.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,010
Likes: 5
From: Johnson City, TN.
If I recall correctly GP's are not all tha expensive so all 4 makes great sense.
When you said find the oil leak. Where could it be leaking from to get in the connections. There is no oil visible on the exterior of the motor. Could it be getting in there from under the VC? Maybe pressure under there??
All of the sockets and pins looked like new except for the oil I mentioned.
I feel good about the GPR also, I checked it last week with a test light and it passed but I did the screwdriver bit just to make sure it was getting enough "juice".
The HPOP is a little confusing to me. If it uses the engine oil and it is low, how will it help if I fill it back up. Won't it just return to the same low level as before by draining back into the pan?
Thanx a million for your help. I am considering becoming a supporter because this site has tremendously helped me. Any other suggestions to be able to keep in touch and expand my knowledge base.
When you said find the oil leak. Where could it be leaking from to get in the connections. There is no oil visible on the exterior of the motor. Could it be getting in there from under the VC? Maybe pressure under there??
All of the sockets and pins looked like new except for the oil I mentioned.
I feel good about the GPR also, I checked it last week with a test light and it passed but I did the screwdriver bit just to make sure it was getting enough "juice".
The HPOP is a little confusing to me. If it uses the engine oil and it is low, how will it help if I fill it back up. Won't it just return to the same low level as before by draining back into the pan?
Thanx a million for your help. I am considering becoming a supporter because this site has tremendously helped me. Any other suggestions to be able to keep in touch and expand my knowledge base.
Playing in the Dirt
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,302
Likes: 1
From: Southwest Georgia
Are you sure it is oil and not dielectric grease that has melted? They use dielectric grease in the connectors to repell water.
On the ohm readings, it could also be bad UVC (Under Valve Cover) wiring. When you are checking the pins you are going through the VC gasket connector, the UVC wiring and the glow plug. So when you pull the VC check all of components individually(ohm the VC gasket connection, then the UVC wiring, then the glow plug).
If your HPOP resevoir is low fill it back up. Drive it for awhile and then check it again. If it is leaking down, like Cuda said, the check valve is leaking.
On the ohm readings, it could also be bad UVC (Under Valve Cover) wiring. When you are checking the pins you are going through the VC gasket connector, the UVC wiring and the glow plug. So when you pull the VC check all of components individually(ohm the VC gasket connection, then the UVC wiring, then the glow plug).
If your HPOP resevoir is low fill it back up. Drive it for awhile and then check it again. If it is leaking down, like Cuda said, the check valve is leaking.
Freshman User
Joined: Dec 2006
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When i pull my valve covers off, i have oil in their too. I thought it was just from when i put oil in the truck through the oil filler cap. I know i have at least one burnt pin on my injector harness on the passenger side and i am gonna change that in a couple of weeks. Probably change the valve gaskets and the injector harnesses cause i am surely tired of taking them damm valve covers off. I hope it all works out for you
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Johnson City, TN.
The oil I am seeing in there is very dark like motor oil. I thought dialectric grease was white. If it can be dark (black/brown) also then I am pretty sure that is what it is. I will check the UVC wiring before I go to order GP's. Thanx I didn't think of that. I may be able to fix this cheap.
The temp this morning when I started it was 57. Wouldn't that be warm enough to start without GP's and still not miss or does it need to be warmer than that before I can go without GP's for starting?
The temp this morning when I started it was 57. Wouldn't that be warm enough to start without GP's and still not miss or does it need to be warmer than that before I can go without GP's for starting?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,903
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From: MICHIGAN
Originally Posted by Neal 97 250
The oil I am seeing in there is very dark like motor oil. I thought dialectric grease was white. If it can be dark (black/brown) also then I am pretty sure that is what it is. I will check the UVC wiring before I go to order GP's. Thanx I didn't think of that. I may be able to fix this cheap.
The temp this morning when I started it was 57. Wouldn't that be warm enough to start without GP's and still not miss or does it need to be warmer than that before I can go without GP's for starting?
The temp this morning when I started it was 57. Wouldn't that be warm enough to start without GP's and still not miss or does it need to be warmer than that before I can go without GP's for starting?
Yep, check the UVC's loke I said above.
57 is still cold enough for it to miss after startup. It takes 70-80f air temps for it to start without a little missing.
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,010
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From: Johnson City, TN.
Cuda, earlier you mentioned that I had weak/bad GP's. How can I tell if one is weak? Will it show high or low ohms? Or is it hard to tell if it is weak or still good?
Thanx for the temperature education. And everything else you and the guys here have taught me today. You are very much appreciated.
Thanx for the temperature education. And everything else you and the guys here have taught me today. You are very much appreciated.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,903
Likes: 1
From: MICHIGAN
The book syays anything more than 2 ohms is bad, I've seen 5 ohms work OK but it anin't going to last long. The 2 ohms is checking through the harness and not directly to the GP. So you are checking the harness too.
BTW: I'll bring this up now that you are likely to replace some GP's The torque spec is 14 ft lbs, don't over tighten them.
If you feel too much resistance coming out, stop. Clean up the area around the GP and soak it overnight with penetrating oil or a de-carborizer (desolves carbon).
GP's can break off, not fun. IF it unscrews but wont's come out of its bore, use a de-carborizer. The tips can swell and they might break.
BTW: I'll bring this up now that you are likely to replace some GP's The torque spec is 14 ft lbs, don't over tighten them.
If you feel too much resistance coming out, stop. Clean up the area around the GP and soak it overnight with penetrating oil or a de-carborizer (desolves carbon).
GP's can break off, not fun. IF it unscrews but wont's come out of its bore, use a de-carborizer. The tips can swell and they might break.