Lifter removal help
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Lifter removal help
Have a '94 inline 6 with 200K miles, recently noticed loud ticking noise, and no compression in #4.
Found #4 intake pushrod out of place,and bent, and 2 other intake pushrods bent.
It was recommended that I replace all the lifters and the bent pushrods. But I'm having a dickens of a time removing the lifters! They come up a little, then get stuck! Anybody know whats going on? I thought they were supposed to come out much easier. Haynes says there is a magnetic lifter removal tool. but no way in heck any magnet is going to pull these lifters out. The best I have come up with is vice grips (barely fit in there), and PB Blaster penetrating oil. And I still don't have one clear out yet.
Also...
Is it probable that the lifetrs caused the bent pushrods? Anything else I should replace if I ever get these old lifters removed?
-dead in the driveway- Thanks!
Found #4 intake pushrod out of place,and bent, and 2 other intake pushrods bent.
It was recommended that I replace all the lifters and the bent pushrods. But I'm having a dickens of a time removing the lifters! They come up a little, then get stuck! Anybody know whats going on? I thought they were supposed to come out much easier. Haynes says there is a magnetic lifter removal tool. but no way in heck any magnet is going to pull these lifters out. The best I have come up with is vice grips (barely fit in there), and PB Blaster penetrating oil. And I still don't have one clear out yet.
Also...
Is it probable that the lifetrs caused the bent pushrods? Anything else I should replace if I ever get these old lifters removed?
-dead in the driveway- Thanks!
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Ok, I finally got a couple out. Varnish buildup on lower portion of lifters. Those were the ones easiest to get to. What dissolves the varnish that I can spray down there safely? I tried carb cleaner on the ones I got out, and it just sat there...
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Ok, started getting the knack (working them gently with adequate pb blaster). Got them all except the one on each end, with no room there for my vice grips. Gonna have to find a lifter removal tool of some (other) kind.
Any other advice re my bent pushrod situation is still sought, like should I do more than just replace the bent rods and all lifters?
-Thanks.
Any other advice re my bent pushrod situation is still sought, like should I do more than just replace the bent rods and all lifters?
-Thanks.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2005
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check the base of the lifters, if they are in good shape, you should just be able to replace the lifters and rods. if they are worn badly, that probably means that your cam is worn too, and replacing your cam would be a good idea. other than that, new rods and lifters should fix the problem
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Base of lifters seem pretty good (ie flat, shiny, no noticeable wear patterns).
I've read other posts about sticky valves as a possible culprit of bent pushrods... not sure how to tell if any are sticky, or what can be done if any are.
I intend to put the pushrods and lifters in place, then crank engine over with a wrench on the crankshaft pulley nut, and see if everything goes up/down like they should.
I've read other posts about sticky valves as a possible culprit of bent pushrods... not sure how to tell if any are sticky, or what can be done if any are.
I intend to put the pushrods and lifters in place, then crank engine over with a wrench on the crankshaft pulley nut, and see if everything goes up/down like they should.
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Cross-Country
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From: Northern MS
Just an update. Got the new lifters and pushrods installed, and turned the crankshaft over by hand, and all the valves appear to be operating.
I compared the old and new lifters by pushing down on them with one of the pushrods. The new ones pushed down easily. The old ones had NO movement at all. No wonder the pushrods were bent. I'm surprised that they weren't all bent!
I won't have time to finish reassembly until Thursday, and will update this posting then.
I compared the old and new lifters by pushing down on them with one of the pushrods. The new ones pushed down easily. The old ones had NO movement at all. No wonder the pushrods were bent. I'm surprised that they weren't all bent!
I won't have time to finish reassembly until Thursday, and will update this posting then.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
The new lifters pushed down easily because they were filled with air. Once they have oil in them they will be harder to compress. Old, sludged up lifters will be even harder to compress, and may stick down.
New lifters are NOT flat on the bottom - they have a very slight convex curve ground on them. If lifters are going back in the same place, you can put flat lifters back in. In general, I would replace the whole set as the cost is minor if you have the engine that far apart and have sludge problems and/or the ends are flat.
You can use a second lifter's cylindrical surface as a short straight-edge to check the base of the lifters. It should have a little "rock" on its curved base. If it is dead flat, proceed with caution. If the base is concave, it is time for new lifters and a new cam if you can afford it.
Also do not forget to always use cam lube and do a 1,500 rpm break-in for the first minutes. Otherwise you risk a round cam lobe. With new lifters on a new cam, the lobe can fail in just a few minutes of idling because there is not enough oil splashed onto the cam.
New lifters are NOT flat on the bottom - they have a very slight convex curve ground on them. If lifters are going back in the same place, you can put flat lifters back in. In general, I would replace the whole set as the cost is minor if you have the engine that far apart and have sludge problems and/or the ends are flat.
You can use a second lifter's cylindrical surface as a short straight-edge to check the base of the lifters. It should have a little "rock" on its curved base. If it is dead flat, proceed with caution. If the base is concave, it is time for new lifters and a new cam if you can afford it.
Also do not forget to always use cam lube and do a 1,500 rpm break-in for the first minutes. Otherwise you risk a round cam lobe. With new lifters on a new cam, the lobe can fail in just a few minutes of idling because there is not enough oil splashed onto the cam.
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Air vs oil - makes sense. Here I'm thinking all my old lifters were siezed. But I'm still hoping that the old lifters were the cause of my bent pushrods. Is it more common for lifters to become stuck down than stuck up?
I didn't "straight-edge" my old lifter bottoms, but I will now that you mentioned their shape.
I did replace all the lifters, and coated them with engine assembly lube (not cam lube). If you think this is inadequate, I can always re-do that before I procede.
Thanks for the break-in tip also.
And speaking of RPM (maybe should start a new post!) - whenever I start my engine cold, it always is at a high rpm. I've found that if I tap the gas pedal quickly just as I start it, this helps. If I take no action, the revs oscillate from high to low, eventually within a minute or so settles in to a normal idle. Any idea which component needs to be cleaned or replaced to cure this problem?
I didn't "straight-edge" my old lifter bottoms, but I will now that you mentioned their shape.
I did replace all the lifters, and coated them with engine assembly lube (not cam lube). If you think this is inadequate, I can always re-do that before I procede.
Thanks for the break-in tip also.
And speaking of RPM (maybe should start a new post!) - whenever I start my engine cold, it always is at a high rpm. I've found that if I tap the gas pedal quickly just as I start it, this helps. If I take no action, the revs oscillate from high to low, eventually within a minute or so settles in to a normal idle. Any idea which component needs to be cleaned or replaced to cure this problem?
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Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Glad to hear you did all the lifters at once. New lifters on a polished cam is not the worst case, so your assembly lube should be fine - just don't let it idle much for the initial 10-15 minutes.
I hope your lifters were your problem, but I am a little skeptical that asticky lifter would suddenly cause a bent pushrod problem, and more than one ? ? ?
Do me/yourself a favor and lay a straight-edge across the top of all your rocker stud ends to see if they are all where they should be. The studs are pressed in and occasionally one or more will start removing themselves from the head. There are oversized replacements available should you have a problem.
I hope your lifters were your problem, but I am a little skeptical that asticky lifter would suddenly cause a bent pushrod problem, and more than one ? ? ?
Do me/yourself a favor and lay a straight-edge across the top of all your rocker stud ends to see if they are all where they should be. The studs are pressed in and occasionally one or more will start removing themselves from the head. There are oversized replacements available should you have a problem.
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Originally Posted by wrenched
Mine doesn't have studs, all bolted down.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Somebody tell me if I am wrong - I am only familiar with the early 300's.
Are your bolts holding down rocker pivots that the bolt holds against the boss on the head? I know Ford used that system on some V-8's, but I thought all the 300's used the same ball-rocker with aself-locking adjusting nut. If you cannot adjust your rockers, then you do need to make sure you have the right length pushrods or you may bend some more.
I'll stop - someone familiar with the exact rocker setup should be able to comment.
Are your bolts holding down rocker pivots that the bolt holds against the boss on the head? I know Ford used that system on some V-8's, but I thought all the 300's used the same ball-rocker with aself-locking adjusting nut. If you cannot adjust your rockers, then you do need to make sure you have the right length pushrods or you may bend some more.
I'll stop - someone familiar with the exact rocker setup should be able to comment.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Northern MS
Each cylinder has a metal cross-bar that spans between the intake and exhaust rocker bolt holes. Then go on the rockers, then the pivots, then the bolts.
I did lay the new pushrods alongside one of the original (straight) pushrods, and they appeared to be the same length. I know the rods come in standard and short (10.14 vs 10.08). I believe mine are standard. Don't know what the shorts are for.
I did lay the new pushrods alongside one of the original (straight) pushrods, and they appeared to be the same length. I know the rods come in standard and short (10.14 vs 10.08). I believe mine are standard. Don't know what the shorts are for.