Hi guys. I'm fresh out of the Marines, new to diesels, and starting a lawn service. I need a good truck and have a few questions. I'm getting ready to buy a 1984 F-250 2wd 6.9l C-6 Single Cab, Short Bed. It has 130K on the clock. Two owners, his father and now him. He's asking 1500.00 and that seems to be a good deal from what I gather. Its got a new IP, plumbing, plugs, tires. He warned me that the water seperator has been bypassed. The AC needs to be converted and charged, a few switches like the lights need to be changed, the tie-rods have play and need to be changed. Also he said the gears, i guess the timing, was off but that he would set it for me and that it will put out black smoke for the first 100 miles or so due to too much diesel not being burned. Is this normal? Also he said it was a Texas truck and its "Heavy Duty" single wheel. I looked up the vin on the Ford Fleet site and it says the truck has 8,501 - 9,000 Pounds GVWR. Does that mean the Rear Axle is full-floating? I tried to research this and came up with it possibly being a D-60... Something else that I was wondering is that the truck has the C-6 which I guess is a 3-speed. When I asked him if the truck will do 70 he said yes its a 4-speed and that when hes gets to high 50's low 60's the trans goes into another gear. Is that the torque converter locking up? I dont think the trans was changed but he did say his father had it "rebuilt and gone over." I'd be pulling a dual axle dump trailer, gear in the bed and one other guy. Would this truck fit the bill? I know its alot to ask but I have to pay him here in the next day or so and wanted to get some expert opinion as I have no mechanic I can trust here in FL. Thanks!

Semper Fi

 

Thanks for your service Marine.......

With the water separator bypassed the new IP will not last long, unless they put a different W/Sep on. If there is black smoke for 100 miles thats NOT normal, ask them how they removed the IP, with (bad) or without taking off the timing gear/oil filler cover.

If it's a C6 it will have 3 gears, with an overdrive unit "IF" installed he may get another shift, doubtful. The rear axle ratio if 4:10 will see high engine RPMs to do 70, so check the door post for the axle and trans code info.

Check at the frost plug/block heater over the starter pax side, looking for the cracked block problem. If it is cracked and been JB welded etc thank him for his time and walk away. Repairs can be done but most are unsuccessful and they leak or blowout and can destroy the engine......

How do you know it has 130K the odometer goes up to 99999 then back to zero and starts all over again....

My gut feeling is bad and you worked hard for your money so be carefull.

 

It does sound to be pretty used up, my dad's 84 has been rode hard most of it's life, and his maintenance is a bit shy, and it doesn't smoke for 100 miles, 1 is the most if at all. My 86 will smoke for the first 1/4 a bit of white while it warms up, but never again until it is cold again.
The water separator on those year trucks pretty much all fail, that isn't uncommon to bypass. The injector pump can live if the fuel filter is changed a bit more regular. Again, my dad's 84 has been run a long time with the separator passed, but changing anything but the oil and filter are something he doesn't bother with until forced to. The pump has been changed once in the 300,000 miles it has been run. The truck needs injectors badly, he changed two... Thing is, the motor is still solid even after he abused it like that. It also has the C6, and after the main 3 gears, unless an overdrive has been added, it will not shift into another gear, just not going to happen, and the converter is non lockup.
My 86 has the 4.10's (by door tag) and will do 70, but that's all the more I want to run it. It will get to about 75-77, but I really don't like how much it screams at that speed. The other 84 my dad has is 2wd, and the door codes at 4.10 as well, but the two trucks don't act quite the same, so one of these days I need to service the oil in the rear axle anyway, and will know for sure. If I had to guess at the axle type, I would say Sterling, which are pretty stout as well. It should be full floating, easy way to spot them is the axle flange bolts on to the hub out where you can get at it, instead of having to take the brakes apart to pull the axle. Basically, if it had a big hub sticking out of the wheel, it has the floating axles.
Black smoke sounds like a timing issue or calibration issue, as it shouldn't do it all the time like the description, only under load or hard acceleration.
And the final note, thanks for your service Marine!

 

All of these comments are just my personal opinion.

First off, I think I'd look into a different truck.
If your starting a business, you're not going to be able to afford any down time. Especially in your first year. The Truck is inexpensive, up front. But with the repairs it needs, figure another $1000 min. If they've run the truck without a water seperator, then the inj's are prolly shot, too.

"I know its alot to ask but I have to pay him here in the next day or so and wanted to get some expert opinion as I have no mechanic I can trust here in FL."

I'm ALLWAYS wary of peeps that deal like this. If there was no known probs with the truck, they wouldn't be in such a hurry to unload it? I think that they've screwed something up, and are trying to get as much $$ as possible out of it, without fixing the problems. The Jumped timing gear is sure indicator that they don't have much mechanical knowlage of these engines.


With the business you've chosen, your going to be moving from jobsite/jobsite numorous times a day.Your going to need some fuel economy @ freeway speeds, in order to keep your operating costs down. The 84-86 trucks do not come with an OD tranny.
Look around for an 87+.

You might want to talk to a Tax Professional. There are a lot of advantages to buying a more expensive rig. If your going to get a small business start up loan. You will benefit from adding enough for a good, reliable truck. Then the tax benefit will allow you to drive a nicer,more dependable truck for dang near free.

 

After asking him he said he had to reset the timing gears due to the fact he removed the IP by taking off the oil filler cover. Thats when he explained he had replaced the IP. Why is it bad to remove the IP by taking off the timing cover? There is definatly no other water separator under the hood. When asked he said he took it to the Ford dealer to install new glow plugs, plumbing for the fuel lines ect and the dealer disconnected the water separator. What does that mean for the IP, new lines, injectors and plugs? As for the 130,000 thats what the title says.

Axle code
rear gawr 5864 gvw 8600 axle 31 wb 133 trans k

Hope this helps and if anyone can explain it to me that would be great! Thanks again.

 

Are you able to work on this truck? Do you have tools? Mechanically inclined?

IMHO, if your starting a small business.....

I've been thru this same scenario. When I bought my 85 for my small business, I spent 2 mo's and around $1500 just to get it workable. Then....

Let me tell you how buying a 20 year old truck goes. First you buy it, knowing it needs a couple of things. So you fix it, start driving it. then the brakes start making noise, so new pads, then apon inspection, new rotors. So as long as your in that deep, new bearings. Then 500 miles later it starts getting hot when you drive it. Dang, Water pump. So you replace the water pump and then the Radiator decides it's it's time, so as long as the rest of the cooling system is going to be new, might as well replace the heater core, before that starts leaking. Drive another 1000 miles and the PS pump starts leaking, $1000 later you've rebuilt the whole front end. 1500 miles later the fuel pump goes, might as well go electric. Another $100. 3000 miles later, the head gaskets let go. Get Lucky, and buy a new set of rebuilt heads for $300. Otherwise, $800....1000mile later...1500miles later....500 miles later....

I do ALL of my own wrenching. If I would have had to pay someone to do it. I'd prolly have $7500 in the 85. Now, I consider it a very reliable rig. But it took 3 years and lots of late night wrenching, just to keep it operational for the next day of work. Luckily, it never needed to be towed. Or the operating costs would be even worse.

To compare, I paid $6500 for my 93. It's in pristine shape, and had 80K miles on it, when I bought it. The only thing I've done to it was preventive maintainence, cosmetic, or modified. The Turbo pump and Inj's could have waited another 40K miles. The Alcoa wheels cost me $400, and the Turbo bumper was another $250.

 

BTW I believe that axle code is the 3.55/1

 

UPDATE:

Well I paid for the truck today. $600 even. It started up easy and for about 15-25 secconds put out black smoke. Then it changed to white smoke. I know for a fact the timing is off and really hope this is the problem. I took a video of the engine and exhaust to show what I'm talking about. It smokes more when im on the gass. Sure enough the water separator is by-passed. There are a few things missing from the IP as far as wires go. I drove the truck about 4 miles to a Diesel Shop and was suggested to go there from a good friend. I know i'll have plenty of questions this being my first diesel and all but hopefully it will turn out good. Pictures and video below.

Please forgive for the bad audio, I was trying to give a general idea of the idle and on the gas, then the smoke coming out after driving to the diesle shop.

Truck Video