Hello gang! My primary TV is a 2004 Excursion w/the 6.0L Powerstroke. The owner's manual lists GCWR as 20,000# and the max towing weight as 11,000#. The hitch says 10K/1K distributed, 5K/500 weight-bearing. I understand what all the numbers mean, but I'm stumped on something.

I'm about to buy a boat/trailer combo that will weigh ~6500# dry, which seems to mean I need a weight distributing setup. BUT, the trailer has surge brakes, which won't work with a weight distributing setup.

Sooooo, what's a guy to do? Is there a fix? New/heavier hitch? Buy an F-350?

 

Quote: "Nice boat. Is the trailer from a DOLLAR STORE then?"

Only way I know to fix that trailer is to put on electric brakes, and carve off the surge unit. You don't want to "FRANKENSTIEN" it, it gets messy.

I would say price a good, solid, new or used boat trailer that will handle the boat, sell off the old trailer, and go with an LDH and Sway Control.

You'll be glad you did.

Life is too short to reverse engineer an entire trailer frame. DITCH IT and get one that works.

 

GW!

Thanks for the quick answer...sure not what I wanted to hear, though!

I failed to mention...it's actually a new boat/trailer combo...grossed out w/fuel in the boat the whole mess could tip almost 9,000#. I don't know why they put surge brakes on such a heavy combo.

All this is making me (gulp) think I may not have enough vehicle to safely pull this boat. Sounds like a more truck-ish vehicle w/a heavier hitch may be in order.

I've got LDH w/sway control on my camper and it's a very solid setup. I can't imagine not having it on a boat/trailer combo that heavy. Dangit.

 

If it's brand new - you might face down the dealer and just tell them straight off:

BOAT- good.

TRAILER - HELL NO!

Make it a condition of the deal in other words, that the trailer MUST BE LDH + Sway Control compatible.

Bluntly - put the burden where it belongs - ON THEM.
If they want to "Make a Sale" bad enough, they WILL capitulate.

Trust me, I KNOW SALESMEN, and I have seen what they can do if you press the right buttons. Chances are they will swap the trailer out for another one on their lot.

No salesman on earth can stock their refrigerator without satisfying a customer.

And you can tell them that one of your friends is a highly respected RV tech who said outright: "I wouldn't touch that trailer with someone elses ten foot pole!"

 

Wouldn't the wd bars with chains work? The chains would allow forward and aft movement? The surge brake only moves a couple inches.

 

You know...the chains might allow a little fore/aft movement so the WD bars might just be the ticket. I think you're right too about how little the actuator needs to move; I'll bet it's not even 2 inches.

Thanks V10!

Waddaya think, GW?

 

How expensive are electric brakes suitable for water emersion or can all electric brakes be briefly submersed?

 

You would need to disconnect all wiring to the trailer with electric brakes, or carry fuses to replace the blown one everytime you play with the boat.

I would make sure from the boat dealer what the tongue weight of that trailer is, boats tend to be balance more toward the rear. The last big boat I pulled was 30' long weighed in at 12,000 on the trailer, there was no need for weight distribution hitch everything sat level. I should also mention that I have an insert that will allow me to pull 12,000# with now weight bars(very expensive).

Toyman

 

I was online into the wee hours of this morning and here's what I found:

First, the rear-end of the Excursion (frame) is slightly different than the F250/F350 frame it's built on, so NOBODY builds a heavier-class hitch for it. Besides, from what I've read, the spring rates in back are too soft to support any extra weight a beefier hitch could support anyway. I guess they wanted it to have a smooth ride.

A company called Equal-i-zer builds a sway control hitch you can use with a pole tongue adapter that THEY SAY will work with trailers equipped with surge brakes. The hitch comes in 6k, 10k, 12k and 14k capacities. (http://www.equalizerhitch.com)

"The Original Equal-i-zer® Sway Control Hitch can help you achieve worry free towing for your boating adventures. In the past boat owners have been limited by their inability to use weight distribution with their surge brake trailers. Equal-i-zer®'s unique sway brackets allow total compatibility with surge brakes.

Until now Sway Control has also escaped the boat towers grasp. Traditional add on sway products limit or distort the amount of front to back movement and render surge brakes useless or even dangerous. The Original Equal-i-zer® Sway Control Hitch allows anyone with surge brakes to have the benefit and comfort of 4-Point Sway Control™.

The pole Tongue Adapter Kit is used on pole tongues where assemblies prevent the bolting of the outside linkplates together is prevented."

Soooo...it sounds like I can use my factory receiver, get the weight distribution I need for safety and still have the surge brakes work, also for safety.

I'm going to call the company tomorrow and see if they recommend the pole tongue adapter for boat trailers or not.

Cheapest prices I found on-line were at: http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com. Free shipping for orders over $150.00 too.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I have a bad feeling about this - but post picturees of it if you do that.

 

Tongue weight for boat/trailer rigs is recommended to be in the 5-8% range, so your rig (at 9000#) should come in at 450-720#. Does the trailer have brakes on one axle or two? Are the brakes drum or disc? If they're disc, MAKE SURE the master cylinder is compatible; discs operate at much higher pressure than drums. If they're drums, I'd highly recommend installing a flush kit if one isn't already there.

If it ever comes to that, Fulton makes electric brake kits for marine use.

Steve

 

I would back off from the deal completely until it is a non-surge brake trailer.

You already know you don't want that (PUT BLUNTLY).

Understand something: (and this is a thing sales people pray we never learn)

You have WALK-AWAY power!

If they want to make the sale - they have to satisfy YOU.
You can't sell someone anything they don't want to buy - IF the buyer is smart enough.

Be a determined buyer. DON'T buy what you DON'T want...

There is much better than that out there, all you have to do is find it.

 

Gotta ring in on this one . I have towed boats all my life (not quite all of it yet!).

I tow a 26" aft cabin boat on a tri-axle aluminum trailer. The boat is 5200# dry. Add for 90 gal of fuel, 15 gal fresh water, food and drinks and misc equiptment. Dont have any real accurate figures for the trailer, so ~1500-2000# for the trailer. I figure ~8500# for boat & trailer. Disk brakes on 2 axles w/surge brakes! Trailer is rated for something like 12,000#.

93 Bronco 351/E40D, 3:55's 10,000/1000 receiver hitch, no equalizer bars. Tongue wt is 850# (measured). I use "Air Lift" bags on the rear axle, 2500# rated. The air bags, do not mean that I carry more weight on the rear end, they just level the Bronco with the weight.

I have towed with equilizer bars on travel tlrs for years (not so much lately). Have you given any thought of what a PIA the bars will be at the ramps? Here again, your planned use will be important. If you are going to strike out from Key West to San Francisco, then bars might be a little better. Sway bars can mount to the side of the hitch ball to the tlr frame, so wont be in the way of or interfere with a surge brake. Sway bars generally help when semi's pass you at a 20 mph differential. If you have sway problems on a straight roll, then you got other problems, tires, tire pressures etc.

You only have to have a wt dist hitch if the load is more than the rear GAWR. That type hitch is a basically better arrangement, if you really need it. There is nothing wrong with surge brakes! (my opinion anyway). Thousands of them in use.

Make sure the trailer has ample capacity plus a safety margin for all the load on the boat. Sorry for a long post.

 

> I don't know why they put surge brakes on such a heavy combo.

Because they cheaped out. For a heavy boat trailer most people want disc brakes, which is a completely different animal from a dual axle dump trailer which does fine on drums, which means hydraulic disc brakes.

Especially if you want to back down a slippery ramp and into the water. Surge brakes have to be disconnected for backing up or down a hill unless you like the jerking or pushing the trailer (found that out by experience) sideways. Plus, drums do not work too well when wet and when you get out of the cab, you want to lock the brakes ON, so the whole thing doesn't slide backwards (which you already know since you own a boat and I don't) in the sand/slick cement.

I think that is how those entertaining pictures of trucks under water at the ramp probably happen. A truck under 10k, in Park with unlocked brakes, on a wet ramp holding a 10,000 pound trailer with no brakes isn't a good combo. imo.

The surge brake controller is <$150 at Northern Tools. The electric over hydraulic is so expensive they don't even carry it. Well over $500 for the cheapest I could track down (I posted in this forum asking about them a while ago before my education on mobile axle brakes). I wanted to convert a trailer, gave up, and sold it.

I would go back and ask to swap the trailer itself in and get one properly set up. Electric over hydraulic stainless steel disc brakes.

 

Most modern surge systems have a lock-out solenoid (with 5-pin connector), so you don't have to do anything before backing up.

My 2 biggest beefs with surge brakes are:

1) No way to apply just the trailer brakes if/when the trailer gets squirrelly on you

2) On long, steep downgrades you can get to the bottom and find you've fried the brakes even if you "punch 'er" once in awhile to relieve master cylinder pressure

I believe some states have passed (or are getting ready to pass) laws making surge brakes illegal because of 1)

I sure would insist on electric brakes - JMHO.

Steve