Oh! I made the cones for the 55 gallon drum myself.

It takes a couple hours but I invented a little tool to make bending the cone easy. It cost me about $10 to build a small bender for it.


I have information on my website but am not allowed to post it here. Apparently the advertisers and webmaster of this site get a bit upset when anyone posts a link to outside products.

 

FIRST OFF IT IS ASTM STANDARDS. Which test did you have it sent in for?

The D6751 standard covers the use of biodiesel as a blend component to be mixed with petroleum diesel in typical blend ratios ranging from 2 volume percent up to 20 volume percent.

OR
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=460 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=460 colSpan=2>CURRENT ASTM D 975 </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=60></TD><TD vAlign=top>ASTM specifications are living documents; they are continually being reviewed and updated as new performance information is acquired, as use requirements change, or as new analytical techniques are developed. Diesel fuel properties currently under review by the specification committee include cetane number, cetane index, low temperature operability, stability, lubricity, and detergency. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

WHICH PART DID YOUR BIO BARELY PASS WITH?

I've never had my oil titrate at more than 4, much of it titrates at 3, so using YOUR own figures; Base rate of 7.2 gms KOH + 4 = 11.2 gms/ltr. X 95 ltrs = 1235 gms per batch. I'm using 1344 gms, so I'm OVER!!

RECOMENDATIONS CAUSE PROVOCATIONS FROM YOU. Your not going to believe anything I type anyway. You titrate and I dont.

 

Its because your lining your own pockets with your site. Every design and suggestion is free on this site helping each other out. If you want to advertise, PAY FOR IT.

 

Not only are your facts and figures wrong, but you are acting incapable of even quoting something in writting correctly.

In addition you EVEN CHANGED COLORS TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE READS YOUR MIS-INFORMATION CAMPAIGN.

IT IS SAD THAT YOU REFUSE TO HOLD YOUR SIDE IN A TWO WAY DEBATE AND HAVE REVERTED TO TACTICS SUCH AS THIS.

This makes a good debate or arguement impossible.

Are school system is trashed.

 

Now that's a valid point.

But lets view it from a few different angles.

I'm not here to advertise. I'm here to help. My advice to get people into making biodiesel successfuly is always free, and more importantly, plentiful.

There is a thick gray area between helping an advertising. That's just the way it is. This site is not mine and I don't make the rules here.. so, I try to stay on the side of that gray line that is favorable to the website owner.

Someone could say, (and have every right too) "Dont even come close to that gray line"..

But, that would totally defeat the purpose of helping people because when you do that, only the paying customers get to post information.. When that information is wrong, and could potentially cause damage , the situation should be fixed.

Everyone has a right to put dinner on the table... but not at the expense of someone else's.

 

Number 1. Identify the mis-information

You website referal.
www.biodiesel.org/resources/<WBR>fuelfactsheets/standards_and_warranties.shtm

www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/<WBR>fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_5_3_rf.htm

http://tdiclub.com/articles/Diesel_Fuel_Guidlines/

I have no campain, im not selling, politcal, or posting how to's. I have not reverted to insults. I have made my own grammatical errors just like you. "Are school system is trashed" Do you mean Our, or is it a question? Since you probably are not talking about high school anymore, college is not taught nor mandated by the feds or state education board. In meaning, any wrong minded individual could have a degree and teach his or her platform.

To address color changes, its easier on the eyes. Do you perfer numbers and bullets as I systematically argue your every point? Thats what makes it a debate.

 

If the slam-fest ever dies down in this thread I have a related and pertinent question.....

First let me say that I understand the purpose behind titration - if your oil is of inconsistent quality or varying acidity (i.e. percentage of FFAs per volume of oil). I can also see where if your oil is VERY consistent it would become an unnecessary step that could be eliminated.

However, here's what I don't understand. If you're trying to determine acidity, why not buy one of the relatively inexpensive electronic PH meters that are so readily available on the market?

I'm sure the equipment and supplies for titration are cheaper, but the process seems overly complicated, subjective, and error-prone. The meter seems like a more consistently accurate option to me.

Or is there some reason that their system of measurement for acidity/alkalinity isn't appropriate for this particular application?

 

No, it is appropriate. I think lithmus paper or your pool ph test or the electronic version will work just fine on your final product. Its all about what and how You want to go about it. The new guys and affordability for them are constant factors. We want them to succeed in every way with the least chance of failure and aggrivation as possible. I am unsure on the specifics of the electronic device or even if they do work. I dont know anyone using them. You want to contact Fabmandelux on that.

 

My infeed oil never gets much above 3, and I blend all the oil from 26 restaurants into one tank. so I haven't titrated in over 3 years, a totally unnecessary step in my operation.

Most PH meters don't last in the biodiesel operation, don't know why......but most people I've talked with that tried them said they didn't last long.

 

Actually, the process of doing a proper titration is very simple.. Takes about 30 to 60 seconds to complete and is very accurate.

Electronic pH meters don't work with oil because of the way the sensor reads the fluid. Most pH meters are designed to read the pH in water or water like conditions. Oil is much different.

pH strips are not near as accurate as a proper titration.

While reading this forum, you have to realize that the most of the folks in here have seemed to follow one guy (FabMan). He has gathered a following and those who follow have no clue what they are talking about. They have taken to following FabMan's technique and defend it religiously. Like the folks from Waco Texas.

In order to peform a proper transesterfication on used oil, you MUST perform a titration. You can not properly change something without knowing what its made of and assumptions are the "Mother of all f#@$ups".

This place is like a biodiesel cult.. The folks here who are following fabman are the ONLY ones that I know of on the internet who do it this way. Avoiding the debate regarding if it works or not, the fact is, people in-the-know and those who run million gallon per year plants do perform a titration.

If you don't want to destroy your engine, the best way to make biodiesel is the scientific way as the large commerical producers who make millions of gallons do it.

Everytime you hear of someone destroying their engine on biodiesel, it is almost always somoene who followed a cult recepie that is isolated to one or two websites or manufacturers.

That's why I started participating here.. Trying to slowely straighten people out with accurate information.

Check out the single biggest and busiest biodiesel dedicated forum on the internet. www.biodiesel.infopop.cc its free and there is no advertising.. no advertising means posters are free to say what they want without fear of being banned or deleted for pissing off a supporting advertiser.

 

Ok lets scientifically debate this. Knock off the name calling and such. So I will just ask questions and you give the answer of why.

I understand tritration. I understand you advocate it. Ok

Question 1.
Do you prefer Naoh or Koh?

Question 2.
Do you prefer methanol or ethanol with use of the catalyst?

Question 3.
If one does not use the "appleseed" (waterheater), is not a tank with a heating element equivalent?

Question 4.
If you answer like this, Koh, methanol, tank equivalent what really is the difference between you and Fab?

Question 5.
What form of methanol or ethanol recovery do you advocate for those trying to recoup their costs?

These are not loaded questions. Once again you advocate tritration after ever batch. Ok fine thats for you and those who like to follow those means. I have not seen Fab jump all over new guys to tell them how to process. So I am just asking you to clarify your position, not send us to another site. Thank you.

 

1. KOH
2. Methanol (But if the same results could be achieved using ethanol, I would switch in a nano-second and be making my own)
3. No not really. All tanks are equal if you have a big enough pump. A very general statement would be 1 HP for every 50 Gallons of batch size. (very general statement)
4. I titrate my oil. Titration is required to make proper biodiesel.

As for methanol recovery, if you run 30 or 40 gallons a week, meth recovery is a waste of time. If you are running monster processors like FabMans, methanol recovery is almost mandatory or you might not get out of the financial red zone.
Either way, to recover methanol properly, you need a reflux still or you wont achieve a purity high enough to use. I see many people practicing dilution methods by mixing good meth with recovered meth. All this does is add water to your next reaction and lower the quality of the fuel from the next batch. If your meth isnt pure, you shouldnt use it.

I don't have anything against fabman or his process. Everyone's process must be suited to that persons situation.. Yes! There is the magic sentance.

Water washing is no better or worse than Magnesol or any other technique. It is just another way of post-processing raw biodiesel. This forum seems to push anyone and everyone to wash with magnasol, regardless of thier independant situation or circumstance. Most times, people don't even bother to ask. Its as if the attitude is "Dry wash or your fuel is crap". "Do it our way because its better".

It should be made perfectly clear that the method each person uses to post-process their fuel should be almost completely dependant upon that persons situation. ASTM standards can be acheived by almost all the techniques.

If you live in the wide open country on acre(s) of land with a great water supply, you have no business dry washing.. It just uses up more resources that are not required and more cost.
But if you live in a very dry place with water shortages, magnasol might be a great alternative! The point is, it depends on each persons circumstances.

On the subject of FabMans biodiesel receipies.. as I understand it, he doesnt titrate.. Or did I miss something? It is a HUGE mistake to follow this advice unless you get your oil from the same place as him. His oil may stay very stable on acid value and maybe he doesnt need to titrate.. But that situation would not remain true anywhere else and I can tell you acid values do fluctuate.
I collect from about 150 restaurants and I can tell you for a fact that during every holiday, the acid value in the oil goes up between 20% and 100%.. Why? Because the restaurant gets more customers on a holiday but the cook still only changes the oil on the regular schedule.


There are 3 sure signs to instantly indicate when someone involved in biodiesel doesnt know what they are doing.
1. Use of a plastic reactor tank.
2. Lack of titration
3. Lack of sufficient catalyst


Do you perform quality checks on your fuel on a batch by batch basis?

I am glad you and I can strike up a civilized conversation.. Bantering is fun but doesnt get us anywhere. And no, I don't take any of it personally.

 

Ok so you and I have made some mistakes on different levels. How about we approach this a lil differently. First I know Fab uses magnesol for a reason, although I have only read suggestions and questions he has not pushed that procedure on anyone since Ive been on this forum. I believe you would retract your cultish statement on the following. I specifically know my wvo from the facitlities I contract from and holiday doesnt apply. So tritration is not ness for me. I have specific equipment that fab does not use but I will and do. Therefore, the only in commons are the chemicals and the general formula changed for the specific regions or resturants. If you post a step by step way in laymens terms without referal to other sites it would be helpful. Your plant and fabs have similiar characteristic specific to your region or our talants in fabrication. Im in AZ and my specifics are different then both yours. Agree?

 

I just can not imagine how you could make biodiesel properly without titrating..

Even a steady restaurant fluxuates by 1 point or so.

So lets say you are one in 100,000 that gets some source of super steady oil where the acid value never changes.. (Hey, I had a source like that for a short time.. Potato chip factory! using cottonseed oil) it was dang good stuff and titrated at 4.0 to 4.2 every time..

But to suggest dumping in 3lbs of catalyist with 25 gallons of oil is way off base.. (Pun intended! )

Come on.. you have to admint your biodiesel making is somewhat of a crap-shoot.. If you don't titrate waste vegetable oil, you are guessing.

Ok.. its your system, your truck and your money.

But please, PLEASE keep that to yourself. All newbies have to learn the same way.. Telling somone to just dump in a a specific amount of catalyst without knowing if they have even titrated is incorrect procedure to say the least.

You know, we may disagree on some things but we are both saving dollars, bullets and temperature for every gallon we burn.

I just don't want people to ruin thier engine because they got bad instructions. It gives biodiesel a bad name no matter why they screwed up or who's fault it was.

I'll say it again, not titrating is a very bad way to go... its like going for a drive at night with your sunglasses on..

 

Oops.. almost forgot..

I am working on step by step instructions for all phases of the biodiesel process.

Titration instructions are posted for all to see on my website. They are not in a format that lends them to being posted on a forum like this.

The reason people like my do-it-yourself construction plans so much is because of the format I present the information in.. They are very detailed with lots of pictures. People love pictures..

Hey, one more thing.. you didnt answer my question...

What quality procedures do you perform on your fuel to make sure each batch is good?