A couple of years ago, some of the Auto service sites were discussing auto 'black boxes'. Seems as if some manufacturers had included recorders, primarily for their own use in checking the function of their systems.

Anyway, it was reported that some law enforcement agencies were using these as evidence in accident cases. Apparently, they would subpoena the electronic info.

This hasn't been discussed lately. Does anyone know about these devices?
Have they been discontinued?

I have a lot of problems with this concept. Apparently, these devices were designed for diagnostic use -- and I doubt that their accuracy was thoroughly verified. I have a fair amount of experience with computer logging -- and I know that there are many ways that it can contain erroneous information. It may record stuff that didn't happen, or not record stuff that did. Also, the timestamp and sequence of events can be erroneous. Not critical for system diagnosis by a skilled tech -- but not something for the legal system .


Anyone?

Thanks,

ford2go

 

GM's OnStar has black box technology. Nissans and other 2006 and newer vehicles have some sort of devices in their on board computers. In a story that made national headlines last year, a man was convicted of manslaughter due to black box technology. He claimed he had come to a complete stop at a four way intersection..then while proceeding thru the intersection, he T boned a lady who had run the stop sign. The lady and a baby in the other car were killed. Information stored in his cars onboard computer, when analysed, showed that when the cars collided, he was traveling 85 MPH.

 

First he kills them, then he lies about it... I hope he never knows freedom again!!!

 

Black box technology on heavy trucks has been around for several years.All modern electronic truck engines have at least some memory capability. Depending on how the truck is ordered it can be as simple as how much fuel it consumes or as elaborate as the exact amount of time spent sitting at a red light.Some of the major fleets use transponder units between the trucks and terminals.As the truck passes thru the gate all logged info from a trip is loaded into the terminal system.If the driver was doing something wrong the supervisor knows it before the driver gets the truck parked.In an accident situation the info can help clear or convict a driver.One case I know of involved a driver hauling a load of beer on the Pa. Turnpike. As the truck entered a curve the load shifted (it wasn't secured correctly) the truck ran over the jersey barrier and landed on 2 minivans. 3 people died. The info downloaded from the engine computer combined with eye witness accounts and the driver's attitude sent him to jail for quite some time.The technology has the capacity to record things like time spent in each gear,total idle time , time spent at cruise rpm, fuel used over the life of the truck and the list goes on.It has many benefits but it has some drawbacks too.Some people see it as another intrusion into their private life.

 

Better known as QUALCOMM! It lets trucking companies know where, what, how the truck is doing! It's not just for load dispatching anymore!

 

Not all of it is Qualcom. The idiot in the beer truck was helped into incarceration by Caterpillar technology not Qualcom.

 

Thanks for all of the info. I was somewhat hoping that the logging had been discontinued,

I do strenuously object to using this data in court cases. Mainly because there are many ways that it can be erroneous. I spent the last 17 years of my career ( retired 2006) in Software Quality Assurance, and I have seen numerous logs. They could and did have errors -- most often in the order of events, but also in the data that was reported.

I suspect that there has been a lot of testing done for aircraft Black boxes to ensure that they're accurate. I doubt that there has been anything like that amount of testing done on automotive systems. It is far more difficult to verify the accuracy of systems such as these than it is to check a speedometer or to measure skid marks.


I am a law and order guy, and I believe in punishing criminals. However, I would hate to be involved in an acident, and have it be my word against my OnStar. I know what would be believed -- after all computers never make mistakes -- never mind that the airlines are currently sweating the early
adoption of Daylight Savings Time this year - because their computers might not handle the schedules correctly.

It is also a privacy issue -- your car is now, in effect, testifying -- it is not a straightforward scientific measurement.

Just a rant -- I'd never own an OnStar -- I don't even have a remote unlocker!


ford2go

 

Its ok to have black boxes as long as you dont make the illegal aliens have one. That would be racial profiling

 

Event Data Recorders are probably the wave of the future. We (I?) got onto this in a "2006 F150 top speed" thread. You drive on a PUBLIC road, your actions are PUBLIC.

Very soon I would expect the question of the privacy of EDR info will be settled, and I would guess it will be that in the event of an accident, it's fair game. For traffic enforcement, there are those who want it to transmit the info so you can be ticketed by mail. Nice.

Drive right and it's your friend, I guess.

 

here's some info on the black box:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...black-box.html

 

Last year a Nevada Trooper rear-ended a family of migrant workers (thought I'd throw that in for ArchieBunkerfarelaneman)

The Crown Vic's "box" was sent to Ford. Data came back with a speed of 119 MPH seconds before impact....which was the governed top speed of the 3.55 geared CV.

 

I don't object to EDR -- but that's not what we have. Some vehicles have
some systems that happen to report various events. Most people aren't aware that this is possible ( GM doesn't advertise this feature as part of the OnStar Advantage)

Also, there is no certification that these proprietary systems are accurate. A couple of posts have quoted what the systems reported -- what if they were wrong? It's not all that uncommon to have errors in logging systems -- unless they were designed from the start with accuracy in mind -- and tested to verify that they got there.

I take the blame for my driving errors/carelessness. I won't take the blame for my car ( truck) reporting things that just aren't true.

ford2go -- still no OnStart ( or power windows)