Well, I am getting ready to purchase a Desert Fox 28 ft. long Toy hauler and I am concerned about the weight! The gross empty weight is 7200 pounds and the GVWR weight of the trailer is 13,400 pounds. I really like this trailer and want to buy it, but can the Ex handle this weight! I do have weight dist. hitch and dual sway bars. I am leaning towards it being OK I am just going to have to be careful about how much I load into this hauler so I dont exceed the 11k pounds...

Just wanted to run that by you all, especially the ones who may tow haulers of this size and weight. Thanks in advance for all your input!! My Ex is totally stock except for exhaust it's a 2004 6.0 Ex 4x4 3.73 gears.......

Scott

 

scottman,

First off your PSD Ex and 3.73's does infact have an 11K# tow rating.

Areas that I would be concerned for towing this much weight with the Ex though without modifications would be the rear springs and the hitch receiver.

The Ex is a beast that is sprung like a little girl. Ford wanted to make it ride softer and gave it softer springs. That directly affects the rear...especially when you hitch up to the TH.

The other area is the receiver. It has a MAX tongue weight of 1250#'s using WD.

Also "PAYLOAD" on your Ex is ONLY 1430#'s!!!...which IMO is MOSTLY driven by the girly man springs in the rear and the added weight of the PSD!

What can you do?...well many supplement the rear end with air bags. Let's face it, the rear axle in this thing is the SAME as a 1 ton SD...it has a GROSS axle weight of 7000#'s!!! MORE than sufficient for the load but the springs need help...that's where the air bags come into play.

ToyHaulers are NOTORIUS for HEAVY tongues...all those goodies up front are heavy...for natural "anti-sway" a trailer MUST present 10-15% of its weight as tongue weight...well with TH's that can easily be 15-20% depending on the toys and how they are loaded...what does that mean...well do some quick math...11K#'s * 10% = 1100. 11K#'s * 20% = 2200#'s!!! EVEN at the 10%, you are right at the receiver rating. I would suggest a high quality aftermarket receiver hitch that would get you more WD capacity...perhaps even a Class V 2.5" receiver shank...

Now I did mention "payload" previously. For those not familar with payload...that is what Ford says we can carry in the Ex over and above a CURB WEIGHT EX...well there aren't too many true curb weighted Ex's out there. The HD tow package actually adds weight...larger battery, larger alternator, larger radiator, receiver hitch, electric mirrors, adjustable pedals, fog lights, DVD, third row seats...etc...ALL add weight and reduce payload. PLUS the people and gear you want to carry inside the Ex. All the people and gear reduces payload. 3-4 adults plus options mentioned above and gear can EASILY add 1000#'s to the Ex BEFORE you even hitch up that TH!!!

So what to do...well the only thing to do is beef up the rear. You will STILL be over your door sticker GVWR and only you can decide if that is something you want to do. The GVWR is how much the Ex can weigh with people, gear AND tongue weight (remember tongue weight is an added load to the Ex and is counted in your GVWR).

Don't get me wrong...the Ex is a MONSTER puller especially with the PSD...the unfortunate part is that they gave her a GVWR with PSD of 9200 and a paultry payload of 1430#'s...without the two modifications I mentioned you are asking for trouble...but that is just my opinion. There may be those that haul this all the time...it only takes one "mis-hap" and if you are over limits...you could be held liable.

As far as sway control. You mentioned two anit-sway devices...are those friction bars?...if so, IMO ditch them for either a Reese Dual cam or an Equalizer brand WD hitch. BOTH of these provide COMBINED weight distribution AND sway control...both are significantly superior in sway control over a friction bar. These work to stop sway from starting...whereas a friction bar acts to dampen sway once it starts.

Lastly brake controller...if you don't have a prodigy, brakesmart or jordan...with the loads you are talking about...get one of them. I use the prodigy and it is a proportional based controller that uses an accelerometer to determine the TV's deceleration and applies a proportional amount of braking force to the TH. Time based ones don't calculate the TV's rate of deceleration...with your load you need more.

BTW...I tow a 31' travel trailer that goes 34' from ball to bumper and weighs right at 9000#'s...much less than your load but still a bunch of weight...

Hope this help a little.

If you have any questions let me know.

 

yeah---what x- said!!- as i ease down the road with my sissy 9000 lb tt

 

X, what mods on the rear have you done to handle your TT. I have a 31' TT that goes 34' front to back. I havent towed with my ex yet. I was using my old CC dually 7.3 last year which didnt even feel the tt behind me. I have added Firestone ride rite air bags my hitch if the sticker is right is 12500 total and 1250 tongue, I have a wd hitch and im buying the prodigy soon. Other mods are listed below, I did also get the AFE stage 2 but will install it when the weather gets a lil warmer.

 

twisted,

I have yet to do anything to the rear of my Ex. So far I have been able to (at least on paper) stay under my GVWR with the TT since my girls are young and light!...my TT's loaded tongue weight is 1150#'s...leaving me right at 500#'s of available payload since my V10 is much lighter than the PSD's...with my wife, the girls and I with our "stuff" inside the Ex we are right at the GVWR. I've tweaked the WD bars to provide the best WD transfer I can achieve so in actuality the 1150 is somewhat "shifted" load when you apply the WD...some goes forward (also counted in GVWR of the EX) and some goes to the TT axle (not counted in GVWR on the EX).

So I am RIGHT AT my GVWR...add one or two friends and I will shift some of the gear out of the back area of the Ex to compensate/offset the added people weight...but as my girls grow and their friends grow...I will likely very soon be going to some air bags to help out back there...I think there are some here that have swapped out the girly man Ex springs with F350 SD springs...That is the "right" way to go IMO but air bags are easier for most to tackle. 50PSI is all you need in the bags to beef up the rear.

Timbrens are another alternative and they are totally "passive" meaning you don't have to pump them up or anything.

For me the biggest thing I am doing mod wise is upgrading my gearing to 4.30's fore and aft...that will match my V10 power band to this TT so much better...the 3.73's leave me REALLY working her on steep/high altitude passes up in the 5000RPM range in 1st in order to not lose the power band in 2nd. The 4.30's should fix that.

The only other mod I've done is add a Hellwig...my Ex did NOT come with a rear sway bar...this thing is very top heavy and prone to sway WITHOUT all that tongue weight pulling on the rear...the Hellwig REALLY helps make the Ex an incredibly stable platform.

We just got our bigger TT...our last one went 27' (30' ball to bumper) and 7500#'s...we towed her near 7000 miles this past year thru the Black Hills, Big Horns and Rockies...the Hellwig, Dual Cam hitch, Prodigy all make for an amazingly stable and enjoyable tow platorm...the new heavier TT IMO requires deeper gearing...and as my kids and their friends grow...a set of air bags in the rear.

The EX is truly a beast of a tow platform but the way Ford sprung the rear above a 7000# axle really has me scratching my bald head!

Oh yeah...one thing you WILL notice when towing with your Ex over the dually...as semi's, buses and Class-A's come blowing by you...you WILL feel what I call the push/pull effect...that LARGE bow-wave of air infront of the larger passing vehicle as they come along side you will nudge your vehicle towards the shoulder SLIGHTLY and then as they come by...will suck you towards the left...as long as you are prepared for this and it doesn't break into an oscillation...this IMO is a normal physical effect. I HIGHLY recommend the Dual Cam or Equalizer hitch...friction bars in this length TT's are USELESS. However be warned that most RV dealerships are freakin' clueless on setup and potential bind issues with the DC. Especially true if your ball coupler is on the TOP of your TT frame...clearance is greatly reduced...if anyone needs help, let me know...either myself or some folks I know can certainly help.

Hope this helps.

 

First! job well done hemi! Right on target! Scottman, I have a 33ft vortex toybox which i cram 6 4 wheeler's in 4 250's 1 160 and 1 80 + gear food, water, beer lots of beer, gas and all the crap the mrs. thinks she needs.
WE hit the scales at about 13k(trailer only)! I have modified my x with exhaust, edge programmer set on 60 hp when pulling(80 hp empty), helwig bar in the rear and bilistien shocks all around.I have installed ride rite air bags and they made the biggest difference in the towing area other than the exhaust. The air bags leveled the tongue heavy th and put more weight on the front end and really reduced my front end wandering problem that most x's have even after you tighten up the steering box. I have dual friction bars on mine I agree with hemi on the dual cam improvement but this works fine for me! Just came in from a big event here in Texas called the MUDDY GRAS! As soon as I pulled out of the driveway immediately noticied how the modifications were working and I really enjoyed the getting there and back part.
Sorry for being long winded! the only thing hemi didn't mention is you do not have to be loaded full tilt before you leave the house! The fresh water and fuel for you generator weighs alot! If you have a long way to go to camp reduce these and top off when you closer. Water quality that's why they make filters! If your trying save $ on fuel think how much extra fuel to extra weight your hauling! I put all the beer and ice chests in the back on the racks of the 4 wheelers to back off on the tongue weight! It's not all beer! It's wood,tools,leveling blocks,etc.----big screen and recliner haha!
YOU NEED TO ADD GAUGES! YOU NEED TO ADD GAUGES! this is my next mod i monitor my trans temp on my programmer! The exhaust temp is my concern next! I am just keeping my speed down and pulling steady but listening to everything and watching oil temp as well on the programmer.
Man I can't believe i forgot I replaced my dinky stock trans cooler with a 6.0 cooler and that alone dropped my trans temps 40 degrees check out my posts from my transmission woes while hauling!
Along with my gauges i will be adding a shift kit to the trans and I have a gear vendor I am playing with! Not 100% on the gear vendor yet! Still thinking on it! I have the unit but I might put it in my 92 f-450 7.3idi service truck that weighs 14k all the time. Welcome the the big hauler club!

 

scottman,

After this thread...I just ordered some Firestone Ride-Rite air bags for the rear of the Ex. Got them for $211 plus shipping! If anyone wants details on where...PM me.

All other places on line I've seen them for over $240 plus shipping...

Will let you know how it helps handle my 1150# tongue...

 

X, just be careful when you put the drivers side Air Bag on, Fuel lines are right where your upper mount is supposed to bolt through. I gently bent them away from the frame and put the head of the bolt between the lines with the nut on the outside of the frame. I was affrad the bolt would chaif against the fuel lines.

By the way I have allready done the gauges, BTM, AFE STAGE 2

X, I know exactly what your talking about when the big rigs pass you, as they approach you your causing twice as much air resistence so you move out away from the big rig, as you get even your dividing the resistence between the 2 vehicles and you get pulled in. Thats the way I think it works, or I could be full of total crap. LOL

 

twisted,

Thanks for the tip on the fuel line...when I put my Hellwig on, directions told me to remove my emergency brake cable bracket for the vertical drivers side support bolt, so I did this...only to find that there was no interference...kind of a bear to get the bolt out too!

It's a shame that Ford chose to so softly spring this truck but then again I bet only 15-20% of them actually see any tow duty...maybe it is higher now that all the soccer moms traded them once the fuel costs went thru the roof!...It "can be" a real TV with so few minimal mods. Some come with the rear sway bar and some don't. That was a big improvement for me tying the body to axle to dampen body roll...I can only imagine how much more stable she will feel with some beef under her butt!

There are a few tricks I learned from riding the RoadKing...which I don't do anymore...but things I learned that are applicable to towing a tag behind trailer...first NEVER brake in a curve unless it is absolutely necessary...you should slow down PRIOR to the curve and slightly accelerate thru the curve...this keeps the hitch point in tension and more stable...when braking or coasting that ball is kind of floating or pushing the rear of the TV...on a motorcycle you are leaned over in that curve and have reduced traction on the tires...so I apply that tip here to towing.

Second tip is that WIND that is created around a big rig...anyone that has ever riden in a convertible or on a motorcycle KNOWS WHAT I MEAN. As you approach behind a truck...there is that one spot where the air is REALLY choppy...as you pull up next to them you can feel the draft and as you pass for a small moment you can feel the push...all those things I just described are what is going on when they PASS YOU...except a trailer and tow vehicle present a much larger profile to react to the pushing air than me on my motorcycle...I guess maybe those that said Earnhardt could SEE THE AIR weren't far off! LOL

Thanks again for the tip on the drivers side...perhaps the air bags will be here this weekend...if not definitely next...I'm still waiting on the towing mirrors as well! Gears will be next month...the Ex is coming together as a tow beast!...although I still envy that 7.3L you got!

 

I tow a 34' (tounge to bumper) TT with a dry weight of 6200lbs. I have a 2003 Limited 4x4 V-10/Equalizer/Prodigy setup and it works great.

You do feel the push and pull when passed by big rigs but like someone else said you just anticipate it.

 

Yep, big ditto on the push n pull, however, I did notice a difference when I tightened up the equalizer/load dist chains 2 links, really took the push pull down dramatically. We have a Ragen 24/27P that is 28' ball to butt, haven't weighed it loaded, but estimates put it right about 10,500# to 11,k, that is when we are going "out to the desert" I have a 100gal fresh, and I usually fill that at the house, and then last stop I top off the Ex, and fill the 36 gal fuel. And I agree with toolbox,,,, beer, lots of beer! I have the stock springs in the rear, with bilsteins and 4" blocks, straight-piped, K&N, and Hypertech, almost 90k. Drags it like a dream. There is a BIG difference, when we go to the beach @ Camp Pendleton, no water, no fuel, no big fat quads, just beer and clothes. I look down and am doing 70-75, GOING UP the grapevine!!
Why Ford stopped the 7.3,,,,???? we may never know!! stupids!

 

If you really want a sway free towing experience with little or no bow wake from semi's, look at a Hensley hitch. Not cheap, but I think its worth every penny.

 

Your Excursion will impress you with how much you can tow. It is capable of towing and hauling far more than what it is rated to. I've pulled 12k like nothing so i know it will do way more. Just watch your gauges. EGTs and transmission temperature are the two most important things to watch.

 

Thanks for all of your input!! I backed out on the Desert Fox 28' and am picking up my new 2007 Attitude 26' toy hauler tomorrow!! It weighs in at 7200 empty and 11000 GVWR. It's a little lighter than the Desert Fox but is still a very nice toy hauler! It was $3,000 cheaper and had a few more options on it!! We will see how she tows tomorrow!! I noticed a lot of you with the 7.3 are saying that you tow a lot of weight with no problems, but are the 6.0's a little stronger towing or not?? All I did to mine so far was put in the Watker BTM exhaust and thats it..........I will let you know how she tows!! Do I need gauges with my truck being stock?? If so why wouldn't Ford install them stock?

 

Your stock engine is safe, but if you push the tow rating, you will want to know what your transmission temperature is if there isn't already a gauge in your dash. I highly recommend the BD X-Monitor. It is very nice looking, folks have asked me if it came with it from the factory. Your 6.0 should have plenty of power to pull whatever you need. Put a chip on it and you will be amazed how much better it runs. Then you will definitely need a pyrometer and boost gauge, which are included in the X-Monitor. Sounds like very nice trailer.