I have comps retro kit with the horseshoes that hold the lifters straight...ordered the lifter 'retainers' from ford and got them in (each one holds 4 instead of 2 lifters so i got an extra set- 2 if i don;t use them). They are plastic and top, squared portion of the lifter rests in and moves the .45 or whatever the lift of the cam is...inside the plastic retainer. I'm wondering about friction and wear re, longevity. I like the system better as far as stability...but...geeze plastic and metal all close, sweaty and what not.

anyone have any experience with these things or know who i should talk to. I checked them out on Tim's recomendation. I guess the key is..are these the standard part of Fords retro roller kit..part # M-6253-A50? If so I'm golden.


thanks, plan on finishing the valvetrain tomorrow night if i can get a grip on this.

 

never mind...

 

I have gotten in on a thread or 2 about this conversion. I like the idea, although at the specs used for a torque motor like the 400 is generally used for, I wonder if a flat hyd cam would be about as good as a roller. Does the roller (using a regular base circle roller cam) require a conversion kit because of a possible oil feed problems or alignment bar problems? Have heard that the oil holes in the roller lifters will actually lift out of alignment with the oil galleries in the block. Can someone remove one problem from this old confused brain?

 

The cam numeric specs do not take into account the higher ramp rates attainable with roller lifters. There is a big difference.

 

the oil galleries match- not sure how they match when lifted but don't kow why they would be different than reg hyd lifters. I almost put half in backwards with the inlets facing towards the center...no oil in that direction. the issue for me is getting decent parts that look like they will work...perception i guess. I'm hoping to benefit from ramp rate and reduced friction.

 

I like the rollers myself, for the same reasons. Some people were putting rollers in a non roller W motor without any kit or small circle cam. I didnt think it would work but couldnt tell them exactly why. I suggested they check where the oil hole in the lifter sits at both extremes of lift first. I'm thinking the oil hole will lift out of the oil gallery in the block and starve or collapse.

 

if i follow, which i often don't, your saying the roller lifters should have less lift to keep the oil inlets on the lifters in the gallery?

Why would the roller be any different than a reg hyd lifter? the kit with ford and comp includes a lifter retention system to keep the rollers stationary but use regualr ford type roller lifters. So if it is a problem the kit doesn't address it to my knowledge.

 

Nope, I was only speculating----. The retro roller kits apparently use varing methods of adapting to a non roller block. One is to use a cam with a smaller "base circle" then use the OEM style roller lifters with some adaptation for the "spider" to hold them in alignment. Another is (Crane) to use a regular roller cam, available from many sources, then use a set of roller (hyd) lifters (kinda expensive) designed for a regular base circle cam.

From what I can tell, you cannot just swap over an OEM style roller cam and lifters into a non-roller block even if you adapt the spider to work. What I dont recall ever seeing is "Why not"? Apparently it has something to do with the fit of the lifters. Its not like they will jump out of their bores, so it must have something to do with the alignment of the oil holes from the galleries to the lifter oil hole. I think I recall reading---somewhere---that someone sleeved (?) the lifter bores for the extra height needed presumeabley for the oiling issue, if it exists.

Is the only problem that the alignment bars (spider) must be adapted? If so, then maybe plastic --or other--adapters are just the ticket. With the advantages of a roller lifter, sure would be nice to easily use the basic OEM setup instead of expensive cams or adapter roller lifters. I guess my basic question is "why not"?

 

and the answer is well beyond me.

 

But--but--but----
Roger, you gots to know---you arent allowed to "not know"

Looking at your first post on the subject----did you use a standard "roller" cam and "roller" lifters? Maybe I have been all wrong on my interpretation of what the problems were for a non-roller block, from other sources. Could it be that its not as complicated as suggested (naw, couldnt be profit motivated!)
Appreciate your help

 

Quick question for you roger, a little off topic but, what did the comp cams retro fit kit cost ya (with cam)/

 

I thought the lifters were stock or equivalent...but I'm not sure. I'm also not sure on the cam ie the 400 would all be retro where as a 351w cam might have a different part# for retro etc...a big help eh? Come on eric, tim ...jump in here! as i havent a clew of what i'm saying.

cost: I had a custom grind and got the parts wholesale.. I think it was about 650 but would have been a bit over a grand regular If I'm thinking right. With comp, their standard roller cams do not offer the longer exhaust duration So it's more to get a custom by $100 or more.

I special ordered fords newer version of the plastic retainers to get rid of the dog bones. That was about $40. A little filing on those and they fit and look to be awesome.

 

Yeah thats what i was thinking, and really its not that bad considering the performance gain that can be had.