My 94 with a 4.0 wouldn't turn over today in the frigid (15 F.) cold. After a jump start it turnred over OK and fired up. It had been showing around 14V on the guage when cruising and around 10V I guess when idling at a light prior to that. At the risk of getting slammed for thowing parts at the problem, I stopped and picked up a battery as I don't know the age of this one since I bought the van used. I was afraid to turn it off and figuered better safe that sorry, even if it turned out to be just a bad connnection.

Installed said battery and you guessed it, no crank. I also tried my charger/ jumper. I do get relays clicking. Cleaning the terminals at the relay didn't help so I figuered either starter or ground. While scraping knuckles trying to get to the terminals at the starter I found the braided wire ground strap that goes from the frame rail to the engine that has been mentioned in previous posts. It was hanging by a thread and broke completely when I moved it. I will fabricate one tommorow when I finally thaw out and feeling returns to my hands.

Is there a chance that this bad ground caused the no crank situation or am I just overly hopefull that I won't have to spend more time working in the frigid cold on my back? I know I'll find out sooner or later myself but since the van is laid up it is difficult to run for other parts if I need them.

BTW, I bought the new battery at a local Interstate Battery distributer. I know they make a quality product and this one was "refurbished". That means someone left their lights on and returned it under warranty. There's absolutlely nothing wrong with it and they sell for $25 with a 90 day warranty.

Sign me:
Wishing I had a warm place to work

 

My $.02. Sounds to me like insufficient current to the starter motor. I suspect one or both of your battery cables is bad - not just a bad connection, the cable.
You shouldn't be dropping to 10V at idle. Maybe your voltage regulator or alternator are bad. When you get the starting problem fixed, have a parts store run a diagnostic on the charging system. Maybe that strap will fix this part.

 

Yep, before throwing any more part or money at this, take it to your local auto parts store and have the chargings/starting system checked.

 

failed starting system or failed charging system will destroy a new battery quickly....hours not days

 

You should be at 14V at idle. Check the alternator by letting the motor idle for a minute or two. Remove the negative cable from the battery. If the alternator is delivering its charge the motor should not stall. If the alternator is OK then regulator ,cables or terminals are preventing charge from getting to battery.

 

And visa versa, the charge in the battery can't get to the starter. But if you have a bad alternator, the battery runs down, and you can start either. Have your parts store diagnose this one. They do it for free, and thats a lot cheaper than letting a bad alternator riun a new battery (which can happen very quickly in cold weather by the way)

 

Don't remove cables while the engine is running. You may destroy the ECU in the process. And then again, you may not, but why take chances.

 

try conecting a jumper cable from the negative side of the battery to the engine block and run a few voltage tests... then run back into the house to warm your hands and get the feeling back into your fingers so you can post the test results

 

Thanks for the replys

I jumped negative battery terminal to the engine block using both jumper cables to different engine locations. No difference and no crank. I would get the charging system checked but i can't get it started. I will have some time tommorow to replace the ground strap with 2 12Ga wires in parrallel, but it doesn't sound like it's going to make a difference. Will check terminal connections on starter, but it looks like I will have to pull it just to get to them.

Since it's an AWD I would need it flatbedded (or tow chain).

I used to check old-style alternators by removing the battery cable, but it could mean certain death to the new ones.

Going down to the single digits this weekend. O-BOY!

 

Not to sound stupid or anything, BUT, are the cables tight on the starter and alternator? I have had that little gremlin attack a few different vehicles over the years, Ford and others. A simple 1/8 turn of on bolt will mean the difference between crank and click. After one gets that big ol' bulge on the forehead does the solution stare you in the face.

 

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This is very true!! Imagine my grief one time, when I came out of the store at night. About 2-3 days of installing a new battery. Heard "click, click click". No lights. No dome light, flashers,ect/. My groan of disgust could have been heard for 4 city blocks.
Grabbed a 1/2" wrench, popped hood. Turned cable connections on battery posts no more than 1/8 a turn, if that. Van (Aerostar) starts immediately, with full power and bright lights.
You'd think I'd won the lottery on the drive home!
Ed

 

yep, those soft lead cable connectors we've been using for decades on batts bend and loosen to easily on their own...very poor conductor of electricity but with all that sulfuric acid around, one does not want dissimilar metals
plus the post is tapered so the connector clamp always wants to slide up and loosen

ever see any of those self clamping steel battery connectors on some models? last 1 year at most....get red hot on long crank

one of the quickest ways to kill a batt is tap on the batt connectors with a hammer....breaks connections internally but makes the batt. company execs rich

 

I fabricated a new ground strap yesterday, but it's been too darn cold to do anything outside; Blowing snow with visiblility around 100' feet yesterday, and wind chill down to -20 F today. I'm just not that hearty anymore, and don't want to risk frostbiten fingers, especially while holding a cold steel wrench. I can borrow the son's car tomorrow and stay inside near the fire today. I seems to me that if the ground strap cures the problem, I probably have a bad ground on the main cable to the engine block or a bad ground cable or terminal as mentioned. The starter should definitely not be grounding through the frame. I'll connect the new ground strap to the engine and try starting it before connecting the other end to the frame. If it cranks I will need to address it.

In retrospect, the cold is here is only a minor nuisance compared to what some folks in Florida are dealing with. At least I have a home to sit in. If we have any members there I hope all is OK for you and yours.

On edit: starter SHOULD crank without ground to frame as long as relays work. If it doesn't, but cranks with frame ground, there is a problem w/ main ground.

 

I had the same ground problem with a 79 Plymouth Horizon. Driving at night the lights would be low. I hit a bump and the lights would flash bright and go back. I went through an alternator and battery before I found the problem. The alternator grounds to the engine and the batter grounds to the body. The braided ground strap connects the engine to the body. The strap had a high resistance and that caused the voltage drop. As long as I didn't use my headlights it would work fine. Turn the lights on and the battery would discharge.

 

That sounds just like what mine is doing. When idling it would drop to around 8V. That's because heat and usually lights were on. It sounds like the ground strap should fix that problem. The starter is likely something else -- cables terminals or starter motor. Cold weather magnifies any problem. Going up out of single digits doday but the wind chill is -25. Will report back.