Send me a PM with your regular email add, and I'll send you the study on feeding glycerol to cattle. IF you recover the methanol from the biodiesel before you use Magnesol, the amount of methanol that remains in the Magnesol is only a couple of parts per MILLION, same with the glycerol.

The key is to be able to do a good job of recovering all the methanol. Methanol is very unstable, and will decompose rapidly in the presence of oxygen. We have fed the glycerol to our cattle and they will MOB you if they see the pail of glycerol because it is very sweet!

As for the soap, if you remove the methanol FIRST, before using Magnesol, the soap is filtered out. About the only thing left are FFAs, very small amounts of Lye, water, and trace amounts of methanol.

The only sample of glycerol I've had tested showed 20 parts per BILLION of methanol.

 

Glycerol is a suger alchol and is used as an additive in many foods.
When used as a food additive it must be very pure, few contaminants allowed, but it is FDA approved


Edit addition:

It is also the main ingredient in KY Jelly and other "personal" lubricants.

 

Congrats Phydeaux! One more post and your a "posting Guru"

P.S. Beers on you

 

Hooray !!!!! Yipee !!!!! Yeeehaaa !!!!Finally made it !!!!!

Thanks for the heads up Fab I hadn't really been paying attention.
BTW I notice you are closing in on the update yourself.

With this post I cross a threshold on my way to posting superstardom


Everyone is invited to my house for free beer tonight
Jusr turn right at the Exxon station go 3 blocks and turn right again I will leave the light on.

 

Ummm, I thought glycerol WAS the soap?!? When you say "if you remove the methanol first, before using magnesol, the soap is filtered out", from that and looking at your diagram I take it you mean that after removing the methanol you can run the bio through a filter to remove the soap? Is it in particles or chunks big enough to filter out, or do you have to use some special kind of filter specifically for soap residues? From looking at your diagram, the recovery of the methanol accomplished simply by applying heat to boil it off (and re-condense and capture it into your tank), correct?

What are FFAs? You've clearly defined the trace amounts of methanol - obviously low enough to be ignored, but how small is "very small amounts of lye..."?

You all are giving me quite an education in the finer points of bio production and I want to say thank you for sharing your knowledge.

I'll PM you my addy for the glycerol-as-feed-study info, Fabman. Do you have any similar info about using magnesol as feed?

Phydeaux88, how pure is "pure enough" for ethanol to be used in the process? Does it have to be water-free too (199+ proof)? Or just free of other contaminants? I kinda like the idea of using ethanol if a reasonably priced supply can be found. Its lower toxicity makes me feel a lot better about using it if it is a viable alternative....

 

As I read through this thread I'm sure that the discussion is based on an "Open" processor, as opposed to the "Apple Seed" style, yes?

 

Soap is formed as a side reaction from water reacting with Lye. If you recover the methanol FIRST, the soap WILL NOT STAY SUSPENDED in the bio. The soap comes out of suspension as a "slime" [kinda like "snot"!] and is easily filtered out. I use a simple bag filter, which can be washed and reused.

I use heat AND vacuum to recover the methanol, but have developed a new process that is much faster, and requires less energy input. I will be posting it shortly, as soon as I receive the conformation back from the patent office on the receipt of my application.

FFAs are Free Fatty Acids, which are mono, di, or triglycerides that have had there glycerol molecule "broken-off" because of excess heat in the cooking cycle. A PH test will tell how "base" the glycerol is and a simple acid [like vinegar] can be added to bring it to a neutral PH.

My contact at the Dallas Group [the people who make Magnesol] says the studies they are doing on feeding the magnesol are not complete, BUT there have been no adverse side affects yet.

In order to use ethanol in the reaction it must be very pure, 99.5 percent or better. Distillation will not make it pure enough. After distillation it must be forced through a "molecular sieve" to reach a purity suitable for use in the biodiesel reaction. Cost of commercial ethanol is above $4.00 a gallon if you could get the permits to buy it. Not very cost effective.

 

Yes, we are talking about my "open" style processor.

 

...but all the same info applies to bio produced in an appleseed too - doesn't it?

OK, well, you've answered all my questions (at least all I can think of right now) Fabman, and I thank you for it.

Kinda sux that ethanol is so spendy and hard to get. Guess that's why everyone doesn't use it, huh?

At this point sounds like the ball is in my court - just gotta' get off my duff and get started building a system, buying supplies, and collecting oil....

 

Will the internals of a "York" type Air Conditioning compressor or any commonly available A/C service vacuum pump stand up to the methanol? Isn't it corrosive?

 

Soap is an emulsion of water and Free Fatty Acids (FFAs)
Animal and Vegetable oils are made of Fatty Acids bound to a Glycerin backbone so the traditional soap making process uses this readily available raw material as a source of FFAs. Lye is introduced to break the bonds that connect the fatty acids to their glycerin backbone yeilding glycerol and FFAs.
Then water is added and the mixture is whipped to form the emulsion.
There is glycerol present in soap but it is an insignificant contaminant, although it actually provide some fringe benefits.
The residual lye probably is partly responsible for the cleansing nature of soap.

Removing methanol from your processed BD helps the soap come out of suspension so it can be filtered out.

FFAs are Free Fatty Acids, approximate chemical formula CH3 ((CH2)10-15)COOH. They are the part of VO that is re-esterized to form BD, Chemical Formula approx CH3((CH2)10-15)COOCH3. In BD unesterized FFAs are a pesky contaminant because the can mix with any water present to form soaps that will plug filters. Also they are somewhat acidic so the can attack metal fuel system components.

I am not really sure, I think Fab knows the answer. I do remember seeing somthing about 98% pure but cannot remember where so I cant swear to it.