mercon III vs. V
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mercon III vs. V
I have an 02' Escape with 110,000 and I use it to tow a 2700lb pop-up camping trailer I flush the trans regularly, and have had know problems to date. But in reading previous posts I have noticed everyone says to use mercon III not mercon V. So I looked at my old service records and found that the 3 different ford dealers I've taken it to have used both mercon3 and 5. So far I have noticed no problems. So what gives? It seems like the dipstick says Mercon V but I'll have to double check that when the wife gets home.
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This has been posted many times on lots of Escape forums, but it does not hurt to post it again:
Note: It is NOT sold as Mercon III, the correct trade name is DexronIII/Mercon. Many companies still make this transmission fluid. Non-synthetic ONLY...
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 16896
2001-2004 ESCAPE USE ONLY 'MERCON' -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC' FOR THE CD4E TRANSMISSION ALL 2001-2004 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE EXCLUSIVELY USE 'MERCON' FLUID -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC'. MERCON IS THE ONLY FORD APPROVED AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID FOR USE IN THE CD4E. MERCON FLUID PART # IS XT-2-QDX (QUARTS) AND XT-2-DDX (55 GALLON DRUM). FOR CANADA MERCON FLUID PART # IS CXT-2-BM FOR BULK, CXT-2-4LM FOR 4 LITRE BOTTLES, AND CXT-2-LM12 FOR 1 LITRE BOTTLES.
Note: It is NOT sold as Mercon III, the correct trade name is DexronIII/Mercon. Many companies still make this transmission fluid. Non-synthetic ONLY...
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 16896
2001-2004 ESCAPE USE ONLY 'MERCON' -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC' FOR THE CD4E TRANSMISSION ALL 2001-2004 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE EXCLUSIVELY USE 'MERCON' FLUID -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC'. MERCON IS THE ONLY FORD APPROVED AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID FOR USE IN THE CD4E. MERCON FLUID PART # IS XT-2-QDX (QUARTS) AND XT-2-DDX (55 GALLON DRUM). FOR CANADA MERCON FLUID PART # IS CXT-2-BM FOR BULK, CXT-2-4LM FOR 4 LITRE BOTTLES, AND CXT-2-LM12 FOR 1 LITRE BOTTLES.
Last edited by tonyford; Jan 2, 2007 at 06:27 PM.
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Why would these idiots at the dealership not know this? When I checked the history of trans services I have had done, both types have been used. The last service I had done three months ago mercon 5 was used, and I haven't noticed any changes such as shuddering yet. Anyway, is this special service message 16896 you listed above from the the factory to the dealers or what? Thanks, Richard
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Originally Posted by inline 6
Why would these idiots at the dealership not know this? When I checked the history of trans services I have had done, both types have been used. The last service I had done three months ago mercon 5 was used, and I haven't noticed any changes such as shuddering yet. Anyway, is this special service message 16896 you listed above from the the factory to the dealers or what? Thanks, Richard
Special Service Messages are like TSB's, Technical Service Bulletins and can only come from Ford's factory and engineers.
Recently I heard now that Mercon V and DexronIII/Mercon are interchangable. There was a Special Service Message put out on this or a TSB.
Honestly though, I would not chance it, especially on an older Escape. Ford is contradicting themselves by stating in SSM 16896 that only DexronIII/Mercon should be used in all CD4E transmissions used in model years 2001-2004 Escapes.
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Thanks alot for the info, you would expect the ford dealer to know there own equipment best which is why I have specifically taken it to them for trans service, because I know that the c4de trans has been problematic in the early years especially.
I wonder what the difference between these two fluids is, that could cause damage to the trans? I'll have to research this some more, I have a friend who has a son-in-law who is a ford master tech. so maybe I could pick his brain on the subject, before I go to the dealer in a fit of rage!
I wonder what the difference between these two fluids is, that could cause damage to the trans? I'll have to research this some more, I have a friend who has a son-in-law who is a ford master tech. so maybe I could pick his brain on the subject, before I go to the dealer in a fit of rage!
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I am not 100% sure, but I think the Mercon V is synthetic or semi-synthetic and it is actually too slippery for CD4E transmission which causes the plates to malfunction or it affects the seals in the trans, something like that on those lines. I can do a search for it and find out for sure, but I am sticking with DexronIII/Mercon in my 2003 Escape.
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Too slippery.. your wrong it has to do with cooler temps and the clutch packs supposedly. Unless you already have a weak tranny synthetic will not harm any transmission.. period. The hype has fried your logic brain cells. I use synthetic's in ours and no problems. If you did a major study I bet you'd fine that most Escape's have Mercon V in them and haven't had any problems.
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Originally Posted by ericsmith32
Too slippery.. your wrong it has to do with cooler temps and the clutch packs supposedly. Unless you already have a weak tranny synthetic will not harm any transmission.. period. The hype has fried your logic brain cells. I use synthetic's in ours and no problems. If you did a major study I bet you'd fine that most Escape's have Mercon V in them and haven't had any problems.
I sell the stuff for a living and the only rule you need to know is that it is okay to go up on spec you just can't go down. There is positively absolutely nothing wrong with using V in a trans that was originally spec'd for III.
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Fried brain cells or not, I think I will stick by this Special Service Message. Using Mercon V is backwards compatible in a trans that was designed to use DexronIII/Mercon...Hey, If you have no problems using the Mercon V, more power to you, keep on using it...but there are many documented cases where Mecon V has caused problems in the CD4E transmission. Most likely cause is that the old DexronIII/Mercon was not fully drained out of the transmission before using the Mercon V, you cannot mix the two fluids.
If you want to be on the safe side go by this Special Service Message:
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 16896
2001-2004 ESCAPE USE ONLY 'MERCON' -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC' FOR THE CD4E TRANSMISSION ALL 2001-2004 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE EXCLUSIVELY USE 'MERCON' FLUID -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC'. MERCON IS THE ONLY FORD APPROVED AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID FOR USE IN THE CD4E. MERCON FLUID PART # IS XT-2-QDX (QUARTS) AND XT-2-DDX (55 GALLON DRUM). FOR CANADA MERCON FLUID PART # IS CXT-2-BM FOR BULK, CXT-2-4LM FOR 4 LITRE BOTTLES, AND CXT-2-LM12 FOR 1 LITRE BOTTLES.
If you want to be on the safe side go by this Special Service Message:
SPECIAL SERVICE MESSAGES 16896
2001-2004 ESCAPE USE ONLY 'MERCON' -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC' FOR THE CD4E TRANSMISSION ALL 2001-2004 ESCAPE VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A CD4E AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE EXCLUSIVELY USE 'MERCON' FLUID -- NOT 'MERCON V' OR 'MERCON SYNTHETIC'. MERCON IS THE ONLY FORD APPROVED AUTOMATIC TRANSAXLE FLUID FOR USE IN THE CD4E. MERCON FLUID PART # IS XT-2-QDX (QUARTS) AND XT-2-DDX (55 GALLON DRUM). FOR CANADA MERCON FLUID PART # IS CXT-2-BM FOR BULK, CXT-2-4LM FOR 4 LITRE BOTTLES, AND CXT-2-LM12 FOR 1 LITRE BOTTLES.
Last edited by tonyford; Jan 3, 2007 at 06:57 PM.
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Originally Posted by tonyford
Fried brain cells or not.... Most likely cause is that the old DexronIII/Mercon was not fully drained out of the transmission before using the Mercon V, you cannot mix the two fluids.
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Well I don't know what to think, but I have apparently had both types used on my tranny over the course 110,000mi and I did due some major towing up high mountain grades this past summer with merc 5 in the trans and I have no problems as of yet.
Anyway, I contacted a ford mechanic friend to see what fords policy or view is on it.
I'll post his opinion when I hear back from him. Thanks for the continued comments.
By the way, the dipstick just says "use mercon" with some spec numbers listed after that.
Anyway, I contacted a ford mechanic friend to see what fords policy or view is on it.
I'll post his opinion when I hear back from him. Thanks for the continued comments.
By the way, the dipstick just says "use mercon" with some spec numbers listed after that.
Last edited by inline 6; Jan 3, 2007 at 07:06 PM. Reason: forgot to add something
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from another source, quote: The short answer.
The original specified fluid is Mercon. Mercon is Ford's spec. It is always shared with the GM spec, Dexron III.
Early in the life of the Escape, Ford published a Special Service Message stating that only Mercon should be used, and not anything else, not even fluids rated that they met Mercon as well as Mercon V spec. It also said that synthetic should not be used.
One of the Ford transmission engineers that participated here posted reinforcement of the above.
Some Escape dipsticks stated Mercon V incorrectly.
Ford has since published that Mercon V is appropriate as a replacement where Mercon was earlier stated.
This has been a hot topic.
Some have posted that they used Mercon V and shortly after had trans problems. Others have posted that they have seen Mercon V used widely in this transmission with no problems.
The general feeling seems to be that you should use Mercon "just to be safe".
The original specified fluid is Mercon. Mercon is Ford's spec. It is always shared with the GM spec, Dexron III.
Early in the life of the Escape, Ford published a Special Service Message stating that only Mercon should be used, and not anything else, not even fluids rated that they met Mercon as well as Mercon V spec. It also said that synthetic should not be used.
One of the Ford transmission engineers that participated here posted reinforcement of the above.
Some Escape dipsticks stated Mercon V incorrectly.
Ford has since published that Mercon V is appropriate as a replacement where Mercon was earlier stated.
This has been a hot topic.
Some have posted that they used Mercon V and shortly after had trans problems. Others have posted that they have seen Mercon V used widely in this transmission with no problems.
The general feeling seems to be that you should use Mercon "just to be safe".
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and another quote on the subject: It's not the people here that can't give definitive answer on this subject.
FORD can't (or won't). They have came out with different guidelines on several occasions, flip flopping like a landed catfish (I know, it should be trout, but I'm from the south).
So, anything posted on this subject from a member here is pretty much just opinion.
And you know what they say about opinions
My opinion is that what ever type was used in your vehicle originally, don't change it. Even a power flush won't get rid of it all. At the very least, the clutches will be saturated.
From the 100's of posts I have seen all over the internet on this subject, I believe that it is the incompatability of the fluids themselves that is the problem.
If you want to spend an afternoon learning about the Escape PROBLEMS from day one, go here.
It is a long read, but will bring you up to speed on the Escape.
Kinda entertaining, too. Some serious flaming and fueding going on in the early days.
FORD can't (or won't). They have came out with different guidelines on several occasions, flip flopping like a landed catfish (I know, it should be trout, but I'm from the south).
So, anything posted on this subject from a member here is pretty much just opinion.
And you know what they say about opinions
My opinion is that what ever type was used in your vehicle originally, don't change it. Even a power flush won't get rid of it all. At the very least, the clutches will be saturated.
From the 100's of posts I have seen all over the internet on this subject, I believe that it is the incompatability of the fluids themselves that is the problem.
If you want to spend an afternoon learning about the Escape PROBLEMS from day one, go here.
It is a long read, but will bring you up to speed on the Escape.
Kinda entertaining, too. Some serious flaming and fueding going on in the early days.
Last edited by tonyford; Jan 3, 2007 at 07:19 PM.
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I can tell you that each time I have had the trans serviced I have paid extra and had the full flush, so there can't be a whole lot of mixing going on between the two types of fluids, other than some trace amounts left behind. So maybe thats why I haven't had troubles. The last two services have been merc5.
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You do what you want peoples, but the two fluids are NOT compatible and CANNOT be mixed...this is what has caused problems in the past...one guy has stated it this way...whatever your manual that came with the vehicle says to use, use it, some say Mercon and some say Mercon V...may '03 Escape manual says Mercon, NOT Mercon V...
Why would anyone want to put a fluid in their transmission that was not designed for that transmission? Common sense tells you if the trans was designed to use DexronIII/Mercon why would you want to put Mercon V in it when there is chance that it will harm the trans...Maybe the newer Escapes have different CD4E transmissions in them and the Mercon V is compatible with it, don't really know. What I do know is that my '03 uses DexronIII/Mercon ONLY as per Ford's Special Service Message...
Be careful what you read on the internet without finding out for yourself the real facts...just because one or two people say the Mercon V is okay to use don't make it so...
Why would anyone want to put a fluid in their transmission that was not designed for that transmission? Common sense tells you if the trans was designed to use DexronIII/Mercon why would you want to put Mercon V in it when there is chance that it will harm the trans...Maybe the newer Escapes have different CD4E transmissions in them and the Mercon V is compatible with it, don't really know. What I do know is that my '03 uses DexronIII/Mercon ONLY as per Ford's Special Service Message...
Be careful what you read on the internet without finding out for yourself the real facts...just because one or two people say the Mercon V is okay to use don't make it so...