Read a couple of threads and am not clear on how complicated to convert 2x4 to 4x4.Looking to for possible beach and snow traction,not crawling.Can't find a donor 4x4 same year and swap front end,auto tranny and transfer case over?Is there a lot of welding of mounts etc that has to be done to acomplish this?This would not be just a bolt in to existing frame?

87 2x4 auto reg cab.

 

The problem is you are looking for either an 87 or 88 4x4 truck with a C6 tranny. The 89 came with the E4OD tranny and you want to stay away from it, an the 86 is the older body style.

So you are kind of limited if you are looking for bolt-in stuff only. If you go with something out of an 86 you are into adapting the tranny cross member. Not sure if there would be any issues with the front end.

I would say you probably be off cheaper picking up a used 87 or 88 4x4 rather than do a conversion. Keep looking there is always deals to be had out there if you look long enough.


Seb....

 

Ham...thanks for the reply...my truck is in really nice shape for her age.If I were to find a stock 87 250 ttb front end,will it "bolt" up to existing 2x4 frame or do I have to have brackets welded etc?Then swap my C-6 for a 4x4 C-6 and transfer case to "bolt" in.

 

It's pretty much a bolt in job if you find a 87 or 88.

Don't forget your steering linkages will need to change, the 4x4 trucks also have a stronger steering box and a larger powersteering pump.

You can transfer all that from the donor truck along with your axle, springs, etc...

As I said above it is going to be quite a job to do all this.


Seb...

 

....a big job but a bolt in correct?Because the 250 diesel is basically a 350 frame etc...will a 350 donor truck work as well?....can I use a 250 or 350 4x4 gasser,except for springs?Will a 250 or 350 gasser still be 8 lug?This would still be less complicated than trying to put in a solid/straight ,don't you think?

 

What all do you do with this truck?
Haul weight?
Tow weight?

4x4 F250 and F350 trucks are leaf springs.]
The 2 wheel drive units were coil.

That means cutting rivits and then bolting on the correct hangers.

F350 4x4 front axles were almost all solid Dana 60 axles.
The F250 regular cab had Dana 44HD IFS.
The F250 extended and crew cab had Dana 50 IFS axles.

My truck originally had a 44, I did a swap to the Dana 60 straight axle and have never been happier. Broke and wore out way to many parts on the 44. It actually passed inspection this year without having to install a couple ball joints and tie rod ends.

With all the mounts you will have to swap, it is going to be an involved job and will take some time. But they don't make them like the old trucks any more either.

 

Swapping in a coil spring D44 from a 1979 and older truck may be your best oprion

 

You can go up into the 90's for a donor truck. They used basicly the same frame up until 97 except where the front bumper bolts on. They changed the fenders and bumpers. I am using a 95 rolling chassis to build a 4x4 out of 83 and 86 parts and I am using a NP 205 transfer case out of a 70's Ford.


The only part that will require a little work is your frame at the very front. Leaf spring trucks had a boxed in frame for the front shackles and the 2x4 were not in the year you have. The rear shackes will need a couple of holes drill behind the front cab mount. Your 2x4 radious arm mounts at the frame have 3 rivets and one bolt holding them and they are in front of your cab mount.

The 95 frame, for example is 44" from the back of the core support mounts to the center of the front cab mounts just like your body.

I would look for a straight axle to put in your truck. The IFS will work because the inner pivots are in the same place as the 2x4's and use the same bushing from 80 -97 but the 4x4 have some extra support in there. Under your oil pan.

The transmission mounts are the easy part. There is actually a couple sets of holes on the frame where you can move it frontwards or backwards. Also the mount is located in the same holes for a T-19 and the C6.

There are a couple of styles of trans mount that you have will depending on the trans. It isn't year specific. I have seen the same mounts on 95 as my 83 and 86. It seems like the AOD trans had the odd ball that had the mount kick to the outside of the frame on the right frame rail.

Find you a straight axle and if you are handy with a welder the front of the frame can be boxed with no problem.


Ham. mentioned the gear box. My 95 chassis has the same gear box as the 2x4 83 and 86. The drag link is different.


If you want, send a message with your e-mail and I will send you all the pictures you need.

I am in the middle of this right now. I have three trucks tore all to pieces.

This conversion isn't that bad.

 

That's the route I was taking. After rading up on the swap on several 4X4 boards, I began looking for a Dana 44 out of a 78/79 PU. Found one on my return swingf from OKC (I live near Tyler, TX). The guy sold me the entire front axle assembly w/locator rod, and then helped me pull it out from under his truck. Here are the problems I've encountered (as I rmemeber them):
1. The distance between the lower spring mounts on the axle is 2" too narrow.
2. The axle mount for my radius arms is different from my I-Beam axle. The Dana arms are 4" longer. My radius arms won't fit the Dana 44, and the Dana 44 arms won't fit my truck.
3. This particular axle uses 5-lug hubs (1/2 ton truck). Converting to 8-lug and dual piston calipers is possible, but expensive.

I had thought that my research was pretty thorough; I was wrong. This is NOT a direct bolt-on swap. It can be done, but there are some definite obstacles. Last Summer, my work schedule basically doubled, so I've had no time to 'fabricate'. The axle still sits on my workbench, right where I unloaded it. Here's a tip: Be SURE that people understand you're working on a 3/4 Ton truck. There are differences. This swap is really popular with the F150/Bronco crowd. However, when you make it clear that you're talking F250 (!!), the crowd thins real quick.

 

Dave,Bob and Catfish...thanks for the replies....I just bought this recently and love driving it everywhere.The body and drivetrain are in very good condition in my opinion with the only rust issue being the very bottom inside edge of the doors which I am going to fix and then paint the truck this summer.I want to make it look like she is only a couple years old,relace headlights,body side moulding and bumpers.I am finishing a 1000 sf garage w/ lift for projects and fun.I want to be able to run down to Nags Head ,North Carolina and be able to run out on the beach or be able to drive in the occasional snows we have here or know I can drive out of some mud if need be.No towing to amount to much,maybe a tractor or car on a car trailer and sometimes need to pull a heavy boat up a steep,wet ramp.I have an 03 Dodge Cummins HO 4X4 that I like ,but for some reason just really like driving this old Ford.Sounds crazy but for some reason I just really like her.So Dave to answer the point you are making,you're correct I don't need it.After reading and learning about the TTB problems and parts being scarce I now believe that would not be the way to go.What would be easiest and most economical SAS to install and can this be done as a "bolt in" without welding?I really want the truck to appear as stock as possible with as little lift as possible.It does not have to be a Dana 60 as it will not see any crawling etc. but if that woul be easiest then that will be it.What do you think.I may be out of touch as I have to drive to Pa.Any advice is appreciated.

87 XLT,6.9 C-6 two-tone red and white,

 

My research pretty much agrees with everything Dave Barbieri said. I even looked into whether the radius arms from an F150 could be easily modified and made to fit the F250 leaf-sprung TTB - no such luck.

I've been told that you can use the TTB out of an F150, and convert it to the 8-lug pattern using knuckles and outers from a Chevy 3/4 ton, but exactly what all is involved and how difficult it would be, I can't say. I'm thinking you'd probably end up using a mish-mash of Ford & Chevy parts (knuckles, ball joints, inner axles, outer stub axles, tie-rod ends, etc.).

There really isn't an easy (i.e. bolt in) way to do this as far as I can see/find. I pretty much just gave up on the idea - especially after I found the deal on my 4x4 F250.

 

I knew that using 79 parts would be a little more work because I framed a Bronco and I know how the radious arms are on a 79 model.

I t would be easier to find a frame that is like yours up at the front. The pieces that box the frame are located by the core support mounts so alignment for the front shackles is easy. The rear spring hangers are the same for several years. My 95 are the same as back in the eighties.

You are going to have to do some welding reguardless but nothing complicated. The 4x4's also have a support on the right side that is almost identical to the left side where the gear box bolts up.

If I would have been asked how hard this conversion would have been 6 months ago, I would have been unsure but since I have an 83,86 and 95 frame sitting side by side in my shop right now, all stripped down. I know now that it isn't near as hard I would have thought. The fog raises when you put sunshine on something.

I would pull the fenders and core support off, get everything out of your way, you will see what I mean.

Keep an I out for a donor. I fell into my 95 rolling chassis for $400. Frame, and both drive axles. A friend of mine bought this truck for the rear of the cab. He took his 86 cab and cut it in two at the window posts and in front of the drivers seat. Then he took the 95 cab and did the same thing and put them together. You can't tell it unless you start removing interior parts.


Later

 

Well... If you thought that this would be a direct bolt up you were FAR from wrong....

I just did a SAS in my bronco... now yes this is a common swap for bronco/F150 guys, but 2WD F250s as well...

Here is one REALLY big thing that cant be overlooked.... you HAVE TO lift the truck from its stock 2Wd height.... It must be the same height or higher than a stock F350 4X4 or the diff will hit the engine crossmember... This works out to br 4" min of lift on a F150... so when you consider that the lift spring for 150s are for gas trucks, you will probably need 6" gas springs to get 4" lift in a diesel....

Next.... with 4" lift the stock radius arm mounts just wont cut it... you can either get drop brackets to drop the stock ones down, or get longet arms ( this is what I chose )

You still have to deal with coil angles as it was mentioned earlier that the D44 is 2" narrower, and you have to build a trac bar mount...

If all home work is done ( as mine was ) I started mine at 6pm on friday night, with help worked till midnight, then started at 11am saturday after a really good breakfast, and was testdriving at 2pm....

Good luck!!
Bob

 

Bob...is there enough room on the HD44 to cut and move the spring perches so the springs are in correct position?As for the radius arms,do I have to have fabbed (lenthened)or do you know if arms from another truck work?If the width of the HD44 is 2" less I could run a 1" spacer to put the stock rim back in line.If I am understanding you correctly I think this might be my best bet.This sounds like most fabbing would be getting the springs on the axel in the right place,lenthening the radius arms and mounting the track bar.Then on to finding the right spring to get the height and travel.This would leave a limited amount of welding on the frame,mainly the track bar mount.Do you agree?

 

I will send you an Email with a really good link... It is to another site and when I try and post it here, it never seems to "make it"...

The difference in width does not come from wheel to wheel... it comes from the spring center... the frame on your 1987 is 2" wider than the 70s frames, so the spring want to bow...

There is not enough room to move the spring mounts down on the frame, that and there is a difference in springs between the 70s axles and the 87 2wd "axle" you are dealing with... You either have to use 70s springs, frame mounts, and lower cups ( like I did, but mines a gas ) or use the 87 spring towers/ springs/ lower cups... may work for you...

Here is the harder part of using the 87 parts... The height is one issue, the second is the lower cups for your diff are not a direct bolt up to the 70s axle.... The 70s axle uses 2 bolts going down into the radius arm, the 87 has one large stud through the center.... now here is the good part... I have seen people make an adapter plate for this... this plate not only can have height ( good for lift ) but can have width and move the spring cups outward....

You have also some options with the radius arms... I chose James Duff extended arms... worked REALLY well... But you can also use raius arm drop brackets... If you 4wheel at all this can stress the frame and crack it...