Rotella being reformulated?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 4
From: Golden, CO
Rotella being reformulated?
I get a digest from an engine group in Yahoo!, mention was made of Rotella's formulation changing? You need to log in at Yahoo! (free email is working for me) to access the page: Strokers message #27753
I just wondered if anyone else had heard of any up-and-coming changes, or knew where to find out. This is a response to another post discussing the omission of ZDDP. FWIW, a few other oils are mentioned for high zinc content.
Originally Posted by bdf_tech
Re: Oil that is killing us -- Rotella is changing, too
Interesting...
Was just listening to a NAPA car care <NAPA care car>radio show over the weekend, on which they interviewed a technical person from Rotella oil (by phone in Atlanta?).
He stated that, in addition to the upcoming low-sulfur diesel fuel changeover, they were in the process of reformulating their Rotella diesel-rated motor oil. I think it was to a new classification (CJ), and one of the things that was being done was a reduction in zinc and other additives, to meet new emissions requirements (because now diesels will have to have catalytic soot-reduction devices, and the additives potentially decrease the service intervals). He assured listeners that they were "upgrading their formulation" with alternative additives so that engine-wear should not increase.
So, just as a guess, sounds like using new Rotella <CJ>spec oils (and similar oils from other diesel oil mfgs), might not be a guaranteed long-term solution for this wear problem, either.
Just reporting what I heard...
Interesting...
Was just listening to a NAPA car care <NAPA care car>radio show over the weekend, on which they interviewed a technical person from Rotella oil (by phone in Atlanta?).
He stated that, in addition to the upcoming low-sulfur diesel fuel changeover, they were in the process of reformulating their Rotella diesel-rated motor oil. I think it was to a new classification (CJ), and one of the things that was being done was a reduction in zinc and other additives, to meet new emissions requirements (because now diesels will have to have catalytic soot-reduction devices, and the additives potentially decrease the service intervals). He assured listeners that they were "upgrading their formulation" with alternative additives so that engine-wear should not increase.
So, just as a guess, sounds like using new Rotella <CJ>spec oils (and similar oils from other diesel oil mfgs), might not be a guaranteed long-term solution for this wear problem, either.
Just reporting what I heard...
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Bingo. I heard this too a while back. This is why I recommend CI-4 rated diesel oil, and not the CJ rated oil. When it all goes to CJ we're going to have to look elsewhere.
I suggest looking at a racing oil like Valvoline VR-1. Make sure it's also recommended for street usage. Some racing oils have a very low TBN (acid neutralizaton capability), and would not be suitable for street usage. Be sure to ask or look up the specs first.
It's becoming more complicated to run these old flat tappet cams, no doubt about that!
I suggest looking at a racing oil like Valvoline VR-1. Make sure it's also recommended for street usage. Some racing oils have a very low TBN (acid neutralizaton capability), and would not be suitable for street usage. Be sure to ask or look up the specs first.
It's becoming more complicated to run these old flat tappet cams, no doubt about that!
Needsmorecoffee.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 2
From: CT
Well that sucks to hear. Thanks for posting this. I've not heard about any of this yet.
Kurt what other oils are CI-4 rated? This is a subject I've not kept up with but think I'd better pay attention from now on. Is the VR-1 still ok? Or has that been offered in a few variations also?
G.
Kurt what other oils are CI-4 rated? This is a subject I've not kept up with but think I'd better pay attention from now on. Is the VR-1 still ok? Or has that been offered in a few variations also?
G.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
The one I've been using is Mystik JT-8 Super Heavy Duty. It comes in 10w30, 15w40, and 15w50. As far as I've seen, it is not out in the CJ rating yet. They do have some distribution problems, so finding it may be a problem.
Some other ones to look for are Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, and others. Basically look for the 15w40 weight, then look for the ratings. See if that name is offered in other weights.
A little research goes a long way here. Most oil manufacturers have product info sheets available online that tell the specs, zinc percentage, and so on. Here's a good example, of VR1:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR...otor%20Oil.pdf
This shows the TBN to be 8, which is as good as or better than most standard gasoline engine motor oils. It also the zinc / phosphorus, which the ZDDP additive consists of, to be at .130 / .120, which is a bit above even what a diesel rated oil would have. IMO it's the perfect oil for these old FE's with flat tappet cams.
Here's an example of one you would not want to run on the street:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/Sp...ing%20Oils.pdf
The other specs look OK, but the TBN is rated somewhere less than 6, meaning it may lack the acid neutralization required for street usage.
Most manufacturers have spec pages like that listed on their website.
Some other ones to look for are Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, and others. Basically look for the 15w40 weight, then look for the ratings. See if that name is offered in other weights.
A little research goes a long way here. Most oil manufacturers have product info sheets available online that tell the specs, zinc percentage, and so on. Here's a good example, of VR1:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/VR...otor%20Oil.pdf
This shows the TBN to be 8, which is as good as or better than most standard gasoline engine motor oils. It also the zinc / phosphorus, which the ZDDP additive consists of, to be at .130 / .120, which is a bit above even what a diesel rated oil would have. IMO it's the perfect oil for these old FE's with flat tappet cams.
Here's an example of one you would not want to run on the street:
http://www.valvoline.com/products/Sp...ing%20Oils.pdf
The other specs look OK, but the TBN is rated somewhere less than 6, meaning it may lack the acid neutralization required for street usage.
Most manufacturers have spec pages like that listed on their website.
Needsmorecoffee.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,624
Likes: 2
From: CT
Wow thanks very much for the education!! I'll keep myself up to date and more informed from now on. I've not had a running FE project for a few years and have not kept up as well as I shudda on oils. Just what I read on the forums. I appreciate the post and info very much!
G.
G.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,248
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Some other ones to look for are Chevron Delo, Mobil Delvac, and others. Basically look for the 15w40 weight, then look for the ratings. See if that name is offered in other weights.
The Zinc and Phosphorus number on Chevron Delo 400 multigrade 15w40 has some very good Zinc and Phosphorus 0.148 & 0.136, a tad bit more the Rotella oil and is good for added protection.
Here the link https://www.cbest.chevron.com/msdsServer/controller?module=com.chevron.lubes.msds.bus.BusPD SList®ion=NA&txtPDSNumber=DELO&directPDSLink=TR UE&isLoginPage=true&lbLanguage=e and bip on Chevron Delo 400 Multigrade for the product information.
Chevron Delo 400 oils are formulated with ISOSYN base stocks. http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/nafl/trucking/content/prodspecs.shtm
Here an informative link on the oil topic https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...all-means.html
Last edited by 1975Ford; Dec 14, 2006 at 02:13 PM.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
I run Valvoline Racing oil in all my hot rods/race car. NON synthetic though. Lots of years and never a problem.
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: iowa
guys just for you reference the chevron delo and any other including JT mystic will be low zinc oils too as soon as they use up their old stock supplies. All the new diesel engines will require CJ rated oil and that is what they will produce
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Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
Likes: 9
From: iowa
when they do the switch they usually just do it period no adjustments that way someone doesn't accidently pick up the wrong stuff and they don't have to make a totally different label. You might maybe be able to find the old stuff for awhile but I bet not for long since this change has to do with an epa rule and not just new engine specs.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,785
Likes: 4
From: Mddl A MexCans
So can the zinc additive I hear about adding upon cam breakin be purchased and added to an (OK) oil to solve this or ? Over the years I've had a few fords with an FE and some Windsors and always used Castrol 10/40 or 10/30 with 3k service's and never had sludge or other issues "Always been located as far south of the Mason Dixon as one can get" but it has it's extreems too..
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2005
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At the local store, they are carrying the Rotella 15w40 heavy with the CJ rating.
I am using the Chevron Supreme 5w20 or 10w30 on my other FE, 400 cid and 302 cid engine and other engines.
I am currently using the Delo 400 multi grade on my Freshly rebuilt 390 engine with only 1000 miles. This engine is due for another oil change and I'm planning on using the Delo 400 with a new oil filter.
Anybody else using the Chevron Supreme engine oil in their FE engine?
I am using the Chevron Supreme 5w20 or 10w30 on my other FE, 400 cid and 302 cid engine and other engines.
I am currently using the Delo 400 multi grade on my Freshly rebuilt 390 engine with only 1000 miles. This engine is due for another oil change and I'm planning on using the Delo 400 with a new oil filter.
Anybody else using the Chevron Supreme engine oil in their FE engine?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Whoa! That would be precisely the wrong oil for an FE. It's SM rated, and lacks the ZDDP additive package necessary. Even if you still have the old SL oil, it's still only marginal for the old flat tappet cams. And I would never dream of using a 5w20 in any of the engines you listed.
The Delo 400 would be alright for those engines if it's CI-4 rated, and not CJ.
Redmanbob, you could purchase an additive, which would raise the ZDDP, but by how much? I doubt it would be enough to overcome the lack in the oil to begin with. Also, how much do these additives raise viscosity?
Times are changing, and our oil selection needs to change with them.
Edit: Chevron needs to update their product data sheets. I found none with SM or CJ ratings.
The Delo 400 would be alright for those engines if it's CI-4 rated, and not CJ.
Redmanbob, you could purchase an additive, which would raise the ZDDP, but by how much? I doubt it would be enough to overcome the lack in the oil to begin with. Also, how much do these additives raise viscosity?
Times are changing, and our oil selection needs to change with them.
Edit: Chevron needs to update their product data sheets. I found none with SM or CJ ratings.
Last edited by rusty70f100; Dec 15, 2006 at 10:16 AM.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,785
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From: Mddl A MexCans
Hmmm well it's been 13 years since Ive had to be concerned with anything like this, my guess is at that time the oils had what was needed (Catsrol 10/40) So lets say it all goes to the "screw you" oils..then what ?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Well, the oil companies have a product for you.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50
There are others if you look.
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50
There are others if you look.