Did we go TOO far?!?
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From: Kent WA
Did we go TOO far?!?
As was discussed in another thread Spectramac & I met at Totem Lake Sunday & adjusted the timing on my truck. Pretty much had it dead on at 8* at idle - though it seemed to "wander" a half a degree or so.
Today I start it up and now I finally KNOW exactly what the "powerstroke rattle" sounds like! It was clattering pretty noticeably. I figured "thats OK, it'll settle down when the cold advance drops off".....
Well, once the cold start advance dropped off it almost-but-not-quite stopped. At idle you can just barely hear it rattle. Stomp on it hard & fast and it does a quick little brrrrap of rattle as it spins up. I never got it really completely warmed up to see if it would totally stop rattling, but I'm a little concerned. Gassers tend to ping more as they get warmed up - not less.
I know with a non-computer controlled gasser it is OK to set the timing to where it is just on the edge of spark knock - in fact that is the best setting for power and economy. But these diesels are so different. Is this OK? Or should I try to back it off a little. Don't want to damage or over stress this old girl.....
Today I start it up and now I finally KNOW exactly what the "powerstroke rattle" sounds like! It was clattering pretty noticeably. I figured "thats OK, it'll settle down when the cold advance drops off".....
Well, once the cold start advance dropped off it almost-but-not-quite stopped. At idle you can just barely hear it rattle. Stomp on it hard & fast and it does a quick little brrrrap of rattle as it spins up. I never got it really completely warmed up to see if it would totally stop rattling, but I'm a little concerned. Gassers tend to ping more as they get warmed up - not less.
I know with a non-computer controlled gasser it is OK to set the timing to where it is just on the edge of spark knock - in fact that is the best setting for power and economy. But these diesels are so different. Is this OK? Or should I try to back it off a little. Don't want to damage or over stress this old girl.....
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Cheaper, are you happy the way it runs? I have mine at 8 BTC with no problems at all, are you sure its at 8 and not more...I don't dought spectramac abilities and belive me I couldn't time an IDI if my life depended on it....but from what I've read there is a lot more to timing these things thats way over my head, thats why I went to a shop that specializes in IP,s injectors etc lol
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by bc6.9
Cheaper, are you happy the way it runs? I have mine at 8 BTC with no problems at all, are you sure its at 8 and not more...I don't dought spectramac abilities and belive me I couldn't time an IDI if my life depended on it....but from what I've read there is a lot more to timing these things thats way over my head, thats why I went to a shop that specializes in IP,s injectors etc lol
As for how it drives, I haven't actally driven it since I parked it last night. I just started it up and listened to it for a few minutes until it warmed up and the cold advance kicked off. That's all I had time for - had to go take my boy to scouts tonight....
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From: Monroe, WA
Mine's pretty loud with the cold start advance on. I think you're alright. I had one running around with close to 10 degrees for about a year and it never hurt itself.
Diesels are supposed to rattle!
Diesels are supposed to rattle!
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by Spectramac
Mine's pretty loud with the cold start advance on. I think you're alright. I had one running around with close to 10 degrees for about a year and it never hurt itself.
Diesels are supposed to rattle!
Diesels are supposed to rattle!
BTW, I picked up a gallon of Diesel Kleen at WallyMart today. I want to give the injectors a real good STRONG dose to see if they clean up and smooth out my idle. The jug says that a 1:300 ratio (around 8.5 ounces per 20 gallon tank) will raise Cetane rating by 6 points, and that a 1:150 ratio (around 17 ounces per 20 gallon tank) will raise it by 3 points. That's all well & good for future ongoing maintenance purposes.
HOWEVER, what I didn't see on the label was any recommended ratio for cleaning dirty old injectors. I'm thinking maybe something in the neighborhood of a 1:100 ratio - about 25 ounces per 20 gallon tank. 'Zat too much? Not enough? Anybody got a different suggestion on how much to add to each tankfull?
Last edited by CheaperJeeper; Oct 17, 2006 at 09:35 PM.
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[QUOTE=CheaperJeeper]As was discussed in another thread Spectramac & I met at Totem Lake Sunday & adjusted the timing on my truck. Pretty much had it dead on at 8* at idle - though it seemed to "wander" a half a degree or so.
Hey CJ,
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I’ve got a MT480 with the glow plug insert and I’ve been doing a lot of reading (before I make any adjustments) and I believe there might be a difference between the pulse and luminosity probe types (especially as the ip ages) but haven’t found anyone that’s done a direct comparison so that might be a misconception on my part. With that said I have found out that folks set the timing at different rpm’s but never at idle (625?). Most of the time they’re about 1300 on rpm @ maybe 5* BTDC. Some other information I gathered is that the “automatic” timing ip advance runs about 2.5* advance from idle to 2000 rpm. Check the advance on yours to see if it’s working – setup the timing equipment, set the idle at 625, check the timing mark then increase rpm to 2000, should advance 2.5* or the pump advance might need attention. Most info I found suggest 8.5* BTDC @ 2000 rpm on the 7.3 diesel using the pulse style adapter. Very important that the engine is at normal running temp of 192 to 212 F. If your ip advance isn’t working you might be at 8* all the time or at 10.5* if the advance is working?
<o></o>
If anyone has any different numbers than these or any comparisons between the luminosity probe and pulse please let me know. I don’t intend on making any adjustments till spring. The beast is old and sits out in the open sometimes for 4 to 5 weeks before I get home and she still starts, knock on wood, no heater and highs in the about 10 degrees F (kills any mosquitoes that the hard water didn’t get) so I’m not going to screw with it now!
<o></o>
93
Hey CJ,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o>I’ve got a MT480 with the glow plug insert and I’ve been doing a lot of reading (before I make any adjustments) and I believe there might be a difference between the pulse and luminosity probe types (especially as the ip ages) but haven’t found anyone that’s done a direct comparison so that might be a misconception on my part. With that said I have found out that folks set the timing at different rpm’s but never at idle (625?). Most of the time they’re about 1300 on rpm @ maybe 5* BTDC. Some other information I gathered is that the “automatic” timing ip advance runs about 2.5* advance from idle to 2000 rpm. Check the advance on yours to see if it’s working – setup the timing equipment, set the idle at 625, check the timing mark then increase rpm to 2000, should advance 2.5* or the pump advance might need attention. Most info I found suggest 8.5* BTDC @ 2000 rpm on the 7.3 diesel using the pulse style adapter. Very important that the engine is at normal running temp of 192 to 212 F. If your ip advance isn’t working you might be at 8* all the time or at 10.5* if the advance is working?
<o
></o>If anyone has any different numbers than these or any comparisons between the luminosity probe and pulse please let me know. I don’t intend on making any adjustments till spring. The beast is old and sits out in the open sometimes for 4 to 5 weeks before I get home and she still starts, knock on wood, no heater and highs in the about 10 degrees F (kills any mosquitoes that the hard water didn’t get) so I’m not going to screw with it now!
<o
></o>93
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From: Manitoba
Sort out which timing meter you used........GP hole or pulse on the line. Never done at idle, usually 1400.....6.9 and 2000....7.3.
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From: Kent WA
Hmmmn, well, I may have misspoke. It was definitely done with an inductive timing light using a pulse generator clamped on the #1 injector line - that part I'm sure of.
Spectramac was shooting the timing and revving it up by hand. I distinctly recall seeing the line on the HB right at about the 8* mark (even with the bottom of the tab that has the 0*TDC mark on it) and it was moving up and down about a half a degree, but now I'm not so sure on the RPMs. He may have been giving it some throttle at the time and revving it up to around 1600 RPMs "by ear".
I was just looking to confirm the location of the mark & lending a hand on the crescent wrench (to turn the pump).
Help me out here Malcom....
Last edited by CheaperJeeper; Oct 18, 2006 at 03:35 AM.
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From: Monroe, WA
In my experience timing these engines, there's hardly ever a 1/2 degree difference between an idle and 1500 rpm, so I just set them at idle then rev them up to see if it changes any. Usually doesn't. Your's wouldn't have changed till around 3000 with how sloppy the lever was. 
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by Spectramac
In my experience timing these engines, there's hardly ever a 1/2 degree difference between an idle and 1500 rpm, so I just set them at idle then rev them up to see if it changes any. Usually doesn't. Your's wouldn't have changed till around 3000 with how sloppy the lever was.
Since I went back and adjusted the slop out of the timing advance lever, I'd guestimate that it is engaging in the 1000 - 1500 RPM range now
That's probably why it is doing the little BRRRRAAAAP of rattle when I romp on it from an idle. I'll drive it a while and see how it is. If the rattle bugs me too much, I will dial it back a little.
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Cheaper, you can not go wrong by using a diesel additive...if my memory serves me right [no cheap shots now], Dave S, when installing new feul filter, fills it up with "diesel additive" then installs it! Especialy now with less sulfar in diesel at the pumps.
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by Spectramac
As far as your snake oil goes, I always just follow the directions to the fat side. You aren't really cleaning as much as lubing the parts to see if they work any better.
Are you bucking the trend yet again Malcom?
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From: Monroe, WA
No, just the generic term I use for the stuff. I have used diesel clean in mine. There's also a diesel lube called Lubribore that's pretty good stuff and very concentrated. Can't get it at Wal-mart though.
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From: Kent WA
Originally Posted by Spectramac
No, just the generic term I use for the stuff. I have used diesel clean in mine. There's also a diesel lube called Lubribore that's pretty good stuff and very concentrated. Can't get it at Wal-mart though.
BTW, when you say you mix "on the fat side" of what the directions say, are you talking the 1:300 or 1:150 ratios rounded up to the nearest ounce of additive, or are you talking more on the order of the 1:100 ratio I proposed?