351W Performance
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From: La Grande, OR
351W Performance
Im looking to up the torque and stuff a few more ponies under the hood of my 87 F150. I have a 1994 351W, and it is great, however, I'm a power monger and I always have to have more. I have done some research here and noticed that whenever this question pops up, the most basic "bang for buck" upgrade that has been recommended has been a new camshaft. I have no problem with this, as I have been mechanicing for the past 4 years on these things, but I have a question that never seems to come up.
How does the new cam effect gas milage?
I have heard of people getting a lot of power out of a new cam, but at what cost to this day and age where you give the gas station attendant a finger or two in payment for filling your tank(or both tanks).
Thanks as always guys
How does the new cam effect gas milage?
I have heard of people getting a lot of power out of a new cam, but at what cost to this day and age where you give the gas station attendant a finger or two in payment for filling your tank(or both tanks).
Thanks as always guys
More Turbo
Joined: May 2003
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Originally Posted by nighthawk285
Im looking to up the torque and stuff a few more ponies under the hood of my 87 F150. I have a 1994 351W, and it is great, however, I'm a power monger and I always have to have more. I have done some research here and noticed that whenever this question pops up, the most basic "bang for buck" upgrade that has been recommended has been a new camshaft. I have no problem with this, as I have been mechanicing for the past 4 years on these things, but I have a question that never seems to come up.
How does the new cam effect gas milage?
I have heard of people getting a lot of power out of a new cam, but at what cost to this day and age where you give the gas station attendant a finger or two in payment for filling your tank(or both tanks).
Thanks as always guys
How does the new cam effect gas milage?
I have heard of people getting a lot of power out of a new cam, but at what cost to this day and age where you give the gas station attendant a finger or two in payment for filling your tank(or both tanks).
Thanks as always guys
A bigger cam now, with the rest stock would be a waist IMHO
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From: La Grande, OR
i already have a custom dual exhaust and BBK shorty headers. I am also looking at the intake, but i am still wondering about the milage thing. How much milage goes down for the increase in power?
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Well my milage actually increased when I swapped in the 5.8 I have now. The stock 5.0 in this truck had to be floored all the time on the highway just to maintain speed.. constantly down shifting if there was a headwind or grade. No such problem with the new motor.. it'll actually climb some pretty big hills on the highway without downshifting.
To more directly answer your question, you milage will depend upon the cam you choose. If you put in a long duration cam that needs to rev to make power, your milage will suffer. A short duration/high lift cam will build torque lower so you may see milage improvements.
To more directly answer your question, you milage will depend upon the cam you choose. If you put in a long duration cam that needs to rev to make power, your milage will suffer. A short duration/high lift cam will build torque lower so you may see milage improvements.
Last edited by Conanski; Oct 15, 2006 at 04:59 PM.
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Improving the power of a motor need not always result in (More of) a gas hog. It takes more fuel to make more power, but your also making the engine more effcient at converting existing fuel to mechanical power. Quite ofton a more effcient and more powerful engine, only uses more fuel if you just can't keep your foot out of it.
I have found that heads and cam upgrades go together. One without the other usually doesn't do as much as hoped. The heads are the bottle neck on this series of motors and the most important upgrade. The cams used on the 80's truck motors were rather wimpy though, so there's more to be gained by a cam upgrade on those motors as oppossed to a 90's roller cam motor and so forth.
I have found that heads and cam upgrades go together. One without the other usually doesn't do as much as hoped. The heads are the bottle neck on this series of motors and the most important upgrade. The cams used on the 80's truck motors were rather wimpy though, so there's more to be gained by a cam upgrade on those motors as oppossed to a 90's roller cam motor and so forth.
Tuned
Joined: Sep 2005
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I hear that GT40 heads are a real upgrade from stock. But where ot get some? Also With a cam you have to match valve springs. So with cam comes new spings. I once considered twin turbos on my 351, but I think that is just a dream.
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From: La Grande, OR
So do I have a roller cam on my engine since I have an engine out of a '94? I have heard that getting a different cam than the stock roller doesnt really give much more, but new heads and an intake manifold really help.
GT40 heads were the ones off of the lightnings right? Like most people here, I want to make more low-end torque, so that mainly has to do with airflow. I've also heard that the intakes off of a lightning 5.8 are almost as good as an edelbrock, and a hell of a lot cheaper. But since those are set up for speed and high horsepower, are they still good for the lower torque? Thanks for your thoughts.
One more thought, if I get new heads(or used off another truck), I need to get the block and head machined so they match right?
GT40 heads were the ones off of the lightnings right? Like most people here, I want to make more low-end torque, so that mainly has to do with airflow. I've also heard that the intakes off of a lightning 5.8 are almost as good as an edelbrock, and a hell of a lot cheaper. But since those are set up for speed and high horsepower, are they still good for the lower torque? Thanks for your thoughts.
One more thought, if I get new heads(or used off another truck), I need to get the block and head machined so they match right?
Last edited by nighthawk285; Oct 16, 2006 at 12:58 AM.
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Tuned
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If you are going to rebuild the engine when you get the heads then yes machine the block, but If you get heads that are for a windsor then it shouldn't be a problem. Even 302 heads will work, the only difference between 302 and 351 heads is the head bolt size I believe. But if you do get them used I would get a headset(gasket set) and get a machine shop to work them.
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From: Calhoun GA
I highly doubt your 94 351 has a roller cam in it (from the factory). However, you most likely have the F4TE...roller block, so doing a roller cam swap will be cheap! There are some things to note about that though. The distributor gear needs to be swaped out to a steel piece and different pushrods are needed; pushrods for a 96-97 F250 5.8 will work because those trucks came with roller cams from the factory. I've read where several have done this swap on their 351's and picked up some power and realized a smoother idle. These guys also used a factory 5.0 Mustang cam, advanced 2 degrees. The good thing is all the parts and pieces needed for a roller swap can be salvaged from any factory 5.0 roller motor (mustang or F-150), if you have the right block.
The GT-40 heads flow better than the stock units, but I wouldn't pay full price for a brand new set; there are plenty good used heads out there. The GT-40 intakes work well for a heavy truck, but some wires have to be moved and a I think you need a throttle cable from a GEN 1 Lightning.
The GT-40 heads flow better than the stock units, but I wouldn't pay full price for a brand new set; there are plenty good used heads out there. The GT-40 intakes work well for a heavy truck, but some wires have to be moved and a I think you need a throttle cable from a GEN 1 Lightning.
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From: La Grande, OR
well, i wasnt planning on doing a rebuild, just doing some upgrades. and yeah, i know 302 heads will work, the holes just have to be drilled out for a size larger bolt.
even though ive been doing this stuff for awhile, im just getting into the cam stuff, so i dont quite know enough yet. Whats the benefit of having a roller cam over the flat tappet? And my dizzy does have a steel gear, its not the bronze one (had to get a new distributor with the engine swap). One more thing, where do I look to find the F4TE number to find what block i have? Thanks again for everything
even though ive been doing this stuff for awhile, im just getting into the cam stuff, so i dont quite know enough yet. Whats the benefit of having a roller cam over the flat tappet? And my dizzy does have a steel gear, its not the bronze one (had to get a new distributor with the engine swap). One more thing, where do I look to find the F4TE number to find what block i have? Thanks again for everything
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From: Calhoun GA
Originally Posted by nighthawk285
... Whats the benefit of having a roller cam over the flat tappet...
I mentioned a cam from a 5.0 Mustang because they work well in a truck when advanced 2-4 degrees, and it's cheap with used parts. A fellow Lightning owner pulled his Crane XE254H-14 for the stang GT cam and took it to the dyno. No other changes were made and the GT cam made +18hp more than the Crane cam.
Now I understand that the motors in the Lightnings and F-series pickups aren't the same (intakes, heads, and throttle body), but I would think the gains would still be good in a standard F-series pickup as well. And all the parts can be had for around $100; cam, roller lifters, spider and dogbones.
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Regular '94-'96 351W's had roller cams in them. Rumored to be same cam as a Mustang GT. I'll find out soon enough, with a little luck my topend build will be before Xmas this year. I'm putting in GT-40's and an Edel Performer 5.8 Truck intake.
The lightnings didn't get a roller cam. Why I don't know. May be similar to the reasoning on the Cobra R... The Cobra R longblock was a crate motor designed for Marine engines based on an F4TE block but no roller cam.
The lightnings didn't get a roller cam. Why I don't know. May be similar to the reasoning on the Cobra R... The Cobra R longblock was a crate motor designed for Marine engines based on an F4TE block but no roller cam.
Tuned
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I would like ot run a roller cam in my truck, but I need to concentrate on getting it driving again. It was in an unfortunate accident with a Kia Sportage. Head on, I ended up with bent bumper, fender, grill, and door(My own fault for jumping out of the drivers door) Plus my E4OD is going out. Needs a rebuild. Until then I can dream of all the fun stuff I could do. How do you know if you have a roller block again? What is stamped by the starter?
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From: La Grande, OR
Originally Posted by SVTCobra306
Regular '94-'96 351W's had roller cams in them. Rumored to be same cam as a Mustang GT. I'll find out soon enough, with a little luck my topend build will be before Xmas this year. I'm putting in GT-40's and an Edel Performer 5.8 Truck intake.
The lightnings didn't get a roller cam. Why I don't know. May be similar to the reasoning on the Cobra R... The Cobra R longblock was a crate motor designed for Marine engines based on an F4TE block but no roller cam.
The lightnings didn't get a roller cam. Why I don't know. May be similar to the reasoning on the Cobra R... The Cobra R longblock was a crate motor designed for Marine engines based on an F4TE block but no roller cam.
Also, i've been told that the factory roller cams were actually pretty good from the factory, and the bottleneck on 94 and up engines was the intake and heads. Any thoughts?