Last night I jacked up the frame of my 78 f250 4x4 enough to lift tire off the floor to compare the springs that are on it to the set of factory 2004 f250 superduty 4x4 powerstroke front springs. What I found out that with the front bolts lined up(stationary) to the pins for the axle makes it look like the superduty springs will move axle back 1 3/4 inches and the swing shackles on back will need to swing back just 3/4 of and inch.and maybe 2 1/2 inches of lift. Will I have to change anything on my axle, driveshaft, or steering if I use these superduty springs?

 

There's nothing wrong with welding to the frame provided it's done correctly and the weld it treated as it cools to prevent stress risors. The scary stuff comes when people bolt extensions onto their frame and don't understand the amount of leverage and forced placed on them. If your friend knows welding then he can do this for you no problem. If the hangers are braced and reinforced there will be no additional frame flexing.

All the pictures that I have right now are posted in my galleries. Check the Flex gallery for some closer pics of the suspension. I have a combination up front of drop hangers and extended shackles. The shackles are only extended slightly. The hangers are beyond 10" but I can't tell you the exact measurement off the top of my head. In the back I'm using a shackle flip, an extra set of spring hangers as shackle brackets, custom built shackles and drop hangers at all 4 points. This is on top of the 4" springs back there, still using the stock 3" blocks that came with the truck.

 

awesome ivan! thanks a lot. i am going to be looking at my options more in the next few days, am going home on saturday and am going to take another look in the junkyard, im considering using the rear springs from a school bus and having them rearched for the correct length, remove a few leaves to make them more flexible, etc. from there i will see how far i need to drop my hangers. just taking it one step at a time. good pics, thats what i have been visualizing, but wanted to make sure what was in my head was how it should really be built. ill keep this post alive to let yall know my progress. thanks guys

justin

 

Well cripes, if you're gonna use re-arched school bus springs then you may as well get the 16" Superduty springs. Even pulling several leaves those will still be WAY too stiff for what you want. The issue is the leaves themselves are thicker and they're treated to be stiffer because they're meant to support a LOT of weight. This is the reason I mentioned the Skyjacker springs.

 

Would moving the front axle back about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 inches hurt much on a 78 f250 with a dana 44 front?

 

Yes, and no. Not all aligning pins are actually centerred equally from front to rear. Many new parabolic springs, from custom shops are available with a + or - pin location. Even some stock springs have an aligning pin located closer to one end, than the other. You are correct in that pinion angle will change, (but you are about to make your own hangers remember. and the pin can only be relocated about an inch or so) Articulation will come from the amount of resistance the spring offers. You are also correct in that altering the aligning pin will have an effect on this, however, it can be used to your advantage.
In fact, a pile-up can be made to prevent axle wrap, without the use of rigid bars (no hop bars, traction bars etc.) without the compromise of ride quality, or flex. Ever see a spring pack that is bigger on one end than the other? Drag vehicles have been using this technology for years, and is directly proportional to off road applications. Think about why a semi-eliptical set up flexes so well. (disregard that they flip easily), but half of the resistance still supports the vehicle, and allows good flex. Point being, one can find a happy medium between great flex, great ride quality, and lift, with the control of a full leaf spring.

 

ivan

i looked at skyjackers website, and they have different item numbers for all of the superduty and the old lowboy pickup springs, even with the different heights, i couldn't find a match b/w them. they are making a specific spring for our trucks, do you think this is for fitment issues? you said you just bolted the superduty springs into the front of your truck right?

on a different note, the springs in the truck now are 3.5" lift springs from about 15 years ago and i was wondering about re-arching. if i had them rearched, how much taller do you think they could be made? i am new to that idea, but have heard it tossed around before. can a re-arch only bring the spring back to its original height, or can it actually raise it some more. am considering going with just 6-8" springs and this is my new plan of attack. i have also downgraded my ideas for the moment, the guy decided to keep his rockwells for a truck he is now building so i am stuck with just d60's. am going to go with the 46" xml on a 20x10 american racing wheel, so i believe 10-12" of total lift will be more than enough, maybe even less depending on how much fender i cut. well see. thanks guys, yall are a hell of a lot more helpfull than the folks around here, they just want me to pay them to make all this stuff happen, not give me advice on how to do it.

justin

 

They make different springs for the Superduty trucks and for our trucks. I don't know the exact differences. It could be weight rating, centering pin position, etc. I do know that the Superduty front springs will fit the front of our trucks. If you're going to buy new springs you can just buy them for your year truck. The only reason I'd suggest Superduty springs is if you find a killer deal on them . . . which is why I'm using them on my truck. $100 for a pair of brand new springs was hard to beat.

You can re-arch your current springs and get a little extra height out of them but remember that you're going to decrease the eye to eye measurement of the springs by doing this so you'd have to change the shackle position or spring hanger position to be able to bolt them back up. If you were to do that 6" out of them is probably managable. I don't think you'll get more than that out of those springs. Re-arching typically affects the flexability of the springs (they become stiffer) and over time they'll sag again. I'm not a big fan of re-arching for those reasons but it could always be worse. On a really tight budget that can sometimes get the job done and get you by in the meantime.

 

thants what i thought about the re-arching, but wasn't sure. thanks. i went and looked at the skyjacker springs, man are they expensive! what do you think of pro-comp? have you or anyone you know ever ran them? they are $140 each for 6-8" of lift, and i think that might almost be the perfect starting point.

man, i cant wait to actually get started on this truck.......im just itching to get it off the ground!

justin

 

I don't like Procomp but that's just me. They're very stiff springs compared to the Skyjackers. There's a reason you'll pay more . . . they're better quality. I'm not saying Pro-Comp or Superlift or any of those won't do the trick for you. They'll give you the height you need and will still flex better than the 16" SD banana springs but they're not near as soft as the Skyjackers which means less articulation and suspension flex.

 

sounds good. the guys with the rockwells just called me again, and has decided he wants to get rid of them now. he wants my axles, a high pinion d44 and rear d60 w/ 4.10 gears. i put up a new post in the 4x4 forum, but what do you think i should ask for them? and my new question ivan is about some springs on ebay. 12" lift, front and rear, for a superduty. banana springs? i am not really concerned much with flex for rocks and such, i live in FLAT south louisiana, only deal with mud, really, but are these going to have a totally unbearable ride on the road? they are from competitionleafsprings.com, ive never heard of them before, but that doesn't mean anything. thanks.
justin

 

Around here a set of axles like yours might get $400, $500 tops for the pair. It really depends on your area though. If I go to the local bone yard and find a 4x4 truck I can pull those axles for $100 each. The trick, of course, is getting to them before someone strips parts off. I'd try and trade him straight across and see if he bites. If not then offer a couple hundred extra $$ on top of the trade. Your axles aren't worth the price of gold but his Rockwells have a very narrow group of interest. There's not a lot of goofballs like us that get excited about extra heavy extra wide low geared military axles . . . see what I'm saying?

I've never heard of that brand of spring befor either. The ride won't be unbearable but it's probably not gonna be comfortable either. While I realize that you don't need extreme flex for the mud keep in mind that a stiff suspension doesn't absorb much in the way of bumps and whoops, it just shoves the whole truck around. So if you're flying through a mud pit and catch the wall or hit a good bump a soft suspension will keep you more stable and controlled whereas a really stiff suspension can put you sideways or on your lid. Too far in either direction isn't a good thing.

If the price on those springs is decent and you're not ready for custom hanger/frame fabbing buy them. If you don't like it you can always sell them later.

 

i plan on doing the custom hangers in addition to the springs, i just dont know how much of a hanger i want to build yet. i see what you mean about the stiffness though, thats a good point. you have a good pt about his axles too, ill see what he thinks .
later
justin