You can advance the base timing slightly, but then it will effect your idle quality if you go to far. I wouldn't buy a new EEC if you want to follow my suggestion, but rather use what you have now, and look on ebay until you find one. I found the 94 EEC in a junkyard near me when they got a fleet of wrecked airport shuttle vans (E350 extended chassis based, with the wide fiberglass body) and grabbed one. Every once in a while you'll see them on ebay. 93 is okay too, but the 94 automatic one has the most aggressive timing curve which makes driving a heavy pickup pleasurable. The 94 shuttle vans generally didn't have the E40d so you don't have to worry about electronic transmission wiring and associated error crap. Though, I have one of those too (E40d EEC's from a 94) and the check engine light doesn't light with the tranny missing. Just when you go to download codes, you have a slew of "dead tranny" codes to sift through first before you get to the codes you want to see. Bad PIP, low cyl pressure, and so forth. You don't want 95 unless you really like OBDII.

 

I may not worry about it too much. I've got the mustang computer from when I swapped to MAF a couple years ago (man that makes me feel old) that I'm hoping will work well on a new engine, especially if I can tune it like I want to. I'm hoping to try the MAF swap again here pretty soon if I can get the combustion chambers decarboned enough to keep it from pinging. Right now I can't run 87 octane with the timing set at 10° like I should. I think when I first swapped to MAF with the 24 lb injectors that it ran way too rich and carboned up the combustion chambers. Anyway, I'm rambling now. Thanks for the computer info and tranny rebuild sources. Hopefully I can scrounge the parts I need for the ZF soon and get it in the truck around Christmas time. The 351 swap will be a while off...

 

If your mustang EEC is 89-93 there are a lot of tuning software that supports it out of the box. My personal favorite is the moates.net hardware (and Craig is a good guy, tell him I sent you if you buy anything) with Paul Booth's free "EECEDITOR". Their combination of stuff also supports other EEC's, but certainly the mustang stuff is by far the most documented/hacked/publically available. Also, if you like spending money, Tweecer is another option and offers a real-time analysis feature.

I ran my 351W crewcab with an 89 mustang EEC, and cobbled together harness made of junkyard snips I've been collecting over the years, and within four hours of tuning I had it running very well. Shouldn't be to difficult. I went back to the factory harness and the 94 computer I mentioned because eventually I'll be running the 351W in something else using the factory bits, so I didn't want to shelve them and lose/cut/destroy them. Plus, I made a small profit on the mustang bits on ebay

MAF really is the only way to go. I've been experimenting running a bone stock EFI 460 using a MAF system and it's working out well. Once I finish the TT 500cid, I'm fairly sure I can get that running at least "okay" in one weekend, then tune from there.

If you were running that rich I would have lowered the fuel pressure with an adjustable regulator and see what happened. Or, downsize the injectors, or adjust the tables in the EEC, etc.

Lean is where it's at. Lean burn!

 

Yeah, I eventually got the air meter recal'd for the stock injectors, but I still had problems with it pinging. Maybe because of the carbon that had already built up, I dunno. I'll have to get up with you when I finally get set to tune the thing and try to learn something or two. I downloaded the EEC editor software and looked through the A9L code (that's what I've got), but was pretty confused on a bunch of stuff. Tuning won't be the problem for me, it'll be decoding what all the parameters in the tuning software mean. I do like the prices on moates.net that's for sure.

 

EEC Editor is pretty cool software. It does have a learning curve but the main things to start adjusting are the injector pulse width tables and/or the MAF tables. I wouldn't really change other parameters until you're more familiar with the software, features, and what indicators you get.

BTW, if you don't own a wide-band O2 meter of some kind, you might considering acquiring one and installing a bung in your exhaust somewhere. It's very, very difficult to properly tune anything without knowing with accuracy, how rich and lean things are at idle, under load, during WOT, etc.

A friend of mine has an 89 mustang with a supercharger (Vortech I think) and managed to get it running reasonably well. My wideband meter shoved in the tailpipe indicated he was running the car embarrasingly lean. What we did was tweak things so that we could smell the fuel coming out the tailpipe, then backdown from there.

The car went from yanking your head back from a standstill, to causing severe neck pain. We didn't dyno the car before and after, but there was absolutely no doubt there was a noticable, significant power difference. Instead of smoking tires in 1st/2nd and chirping on the rest of the shifts, he could smoke in third and wheelspin in 4th on the shift a bit. DOT tires of course. Slicks would have been much more fun

Engines require fuel to make power. Most people, not having too much experience in "tuning", often end up with reasonably lean settings and are not getting the power out of their speed parts that they should. For driving around town (lower RPMs) this is fine as you can enjoy some economy in MPG, however closer and into WOT you want the fuel to pour in so you can enjoy your ride even more.

Why do you think I'm building a 500cid, twin turbo stroker for my crewcab? Trucks are heavy and acceleration is fun. Of course I have to balance the fuel at lower RPMs so I don't have to build a shack to live in at the local fueling station.

For example, my old 1975 Dodge extended cab, with a twin-turbo 451 stroker, got very close to 20 MPG (17-19 was typical on the highway), yet from a standstill, with DOT drag radials, I could lift the front of the heavy beast off the ground for a two wheel launch in whatever direction the truck was approximately facing.

THAT was a fun truck to drive, and had much more tuning to go before I ended up bailing on the project.

 

Kinda new to this forum, been reading many post's of yours as I was following the ZF thread. I sure do thank you for your willingness to share your knowlage here.
I have a 91 F-350 4x2 crew cab with a 351w and the ZF, been a great truck, have 222,000 miles on it, getting ready to pull the ZF and open it up to have a look inside, figure it's about time. I did one other rebuild on the same ZF for a buddy, all went fine.
On to my question, I may not understand this, but, are you saying in the above posts that a 94 EEC can really wake up my 351 due to the timming curves, etc.?

I don't have a lot in the way of advanced tuning tools, but if it's some what a "plug and play" swap, it's sounds great.

Your thoughts?

 

A friend of mine told me I could get a ZF out of a Bronco. I can get the front driveshaft from it as well, but obviously not the rear. Is this true? If so that means I could expand my searchs for a new a ZF tranny...

 

I'm not aware of any Bronco ever having the ZF transmission. The ZF and the M5OD are a direct swap in four wheel drive applications from what I've read, so you could probably use the transfer case and front driveshaft from a Bronco with the Mazda 5 speed, then bolt those to the back of a four wheel drive ZF from another source.

http://www.zf-group.com/pdf/lightTru...sion_Chart.pdf
http://www.zf.com/na/defaultz.asp?lang=1&id=220

 

Marty - ZF's were not found in Broncos and F150's as far as I recall. F250/350/450's

Scott - if you have a 351W powered 92-94 E/F series without an E40D, the 94 351W E350 "chassis" EEC or the E350 passenger vans EEC will give you a very aggressive timing curve as compared to other EEC's in hte 92-94 range. Probably because of the gross weight of the vehicle, and how those vehicles are used - constant acceleration around large parking lots - not highway cruising.

The difference isn't "amazing", it's not like adding turbos, superchargers or nitrious, but it is noticable by the "****-o-meter". Installing one definately gave my 400k mile F350 crewcab some noticable pep during acceleration.

 

Just to keep everyone updated, I'm still trying to source a shifter. As soon as I find one (or make one), I'll have to find time to get this thing in the truck. I also recently bought a 351 from a wrecked 94 F150, so I am debating whether or not to put the ZF behind the 302 or wait and install it with the 351. The only problem is I want to try the ZF now and the 351 will be a while more (i.e. after I graduate, get a job, have a decent income and can afford to build the 351 the way I want to). Anyway, that's where I stand right now, I'll certainly keep everyone updated on the progress.

 

Eric,

If you buy a clutch kit from a dealer, you're probably going to get re-man parts, NOT NEW. See my photo gallery. There is NO advantage in buying a clutch pack from a dealer, at all. I had a dealer put a clutch in mine a year ago, and the parts I found when I had to go back after the rear main (wish now I'd have bought the tranny jack sooner) disk, and plate, had re-man stickers on them. Yet, they won't hesitate to charge you NEW REPLACEMENT PART prices, and do not differentiate between re-man and new at dealers now, especially on dealer installed parts. I got that straight from a service advisor when I chewed him out about not replacing a $15 rear main seal while the tranny was out and the flywheel was off for re-surfacing. I was chewing on him about the re-man parts, actually, and took the opportunity to add in the rear main which was obviously drooling at the time.

If you're gonna pull the tranny and get the clutch done, get the flywheel machined too. If the clutch has been slipping, you'll have carbonized goo all over the surface of the flywheel that's just going to wipe out another disk in short order. However, make sure the jobber uses a grinder to surface the flywheel, and it leaves no grooves. Again, a little detail I noticed after the dealer's clutch job. A really nice spiral groove in the clutch surface on the flywheel. Can't say I have much hope of this clutch lasting very long.

 

Well even though this is an old thread, saw it at the top so I figured I'd send out a shout.

EPNCSU2006, I have a shifter for a ZF if you're still looking....you just need the actual stick that comes into the cab right? pm me if you're interested.

MustangGT221, dont know if you're still subscribed to this thread, but I still have that computer in my truck you sold me (small internet/world after all) if you want me to grab numbers.

I agree with paint too, when you pull that old 4spd out of there, take the extra time and money to get that flywheel resurfaced (I got mine done at local CarQuest), and check the condition of the ring gear, might need a new one of those..

I just did a swap like this, threw in a ZF 5spd where there used to be an AOD four-speed automatic. What fun she is to drive now!

 

I sure appreciate all the input fellas!

I am debating right now about how much work to do on the clutch/flywheel if I went ahead and installed the ZF behind the 302. It probably wouldn't be very much longer than a year maybe before the 351 could be ready to install, and I'd want new clutch components when I install that, so it's hard to justify the cost of machining the flywheel and installing completely new clutch components if they are just going to be replaced again when I install the new engine. On the other hand, I don't want to have drop the ZF to replace the clutch before swapping in the 351 if I don't replace the clutch when I install the transmission. I also worry about the new clutch getting messed up while running behind the 302 from a rear main leak, etc. and have to buy a new one again for the 351. The clutch has a lot of miles on it (almost 170000) but is showing no signs of slipping or wearing out any time soon. Trying to do this on a poor college student budget is one thing, but I certainly don't want to half-*** the job and have to do it more than once.

As for the shifter, I actually need the shifting mechanism that bolts to the top of the transmission, not just the handle. The guy I bought the thing from used it on his big block ZF when he swapped engines.

 

I do things on the cheap because I'm so stingy, my butt cheeks squeak when I walk. But, on the other hand, I don't like repeating hard labor like dropping a tranny. The worst part of pulling the tranny to me was the aggravating vibration proof nuts on the cross-member bolts. They're extremely tight all the way off, and there are a LOT of bolts holding that cross-member in. (10 of 'em, if I remember right). I forked out nearly $1400 to a dealer to have my clutch done last year, only to be pulling the tranny again because of the drooling rear main. The dealer quoted me another $580 to do the job to put in a $13 rear main seal, LESS THAN one year after sticking me for $1400 on the clutch. I just didn't have the time nor inclination to pull the tranny when it needed to come out last year, and needed the truck back FAST. I was very disappointed when I saw the re-man disc and PP, and then outright pissed when I saw the rough machining job on the flywheel. It just goes to show if you want something done your way, ya gotta do it yourself.

 

i couldnt agree more paint.......


I do have the shifter part that goes into the transmission, from where the stick connects, down to the ball that goes inside....I used the stick, thats why I was wondering. PM me if interested